From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 03 11:33:17 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1D6w4T-0007U3-Gx for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:33:17 -0800 Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.44) id 1D6w4R-0007TV-Gk for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:33:17 -0800 Received: from mail.123.net (new.e-mol.com [65.169.135.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j23JWhTd003191 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:32:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:32:43 -0500 Message-Id: <200503031932.j23JWhTd003191@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] personal pronouns In-Reply-To: <20050302213458.GO17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20050302211229.GN17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20050302213122.4914.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> <20050302213458.GO17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [209.220.229.254] Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: While looking for personal pronouns, I found {mi} me, {do} you, {mi'a} we-not-you, {mi'o} me-and-you, {ma'a} we-with-you, {do'o} you-and-others. Is {do'o} a plural "you" like the Spanish "usted"? Or is it only to be used when some of those it refers to are not among the listener(s)? [...] Content analysis details: (-2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.3 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list X-archive-position: 1195 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners While looking for personal pronouns, I found {mi} me, {do} you, {mi'a} we-not-you, {mi'o} me-and-you, {ma'a} we-with-you, {do'o} you-and-others. Is {do'o} a plural "you" like the Spanish "usted"? Or is it only to be used when some of those it refers to are not among the listener(s)? How do we speak about the third person without including the first or second person? I know there are no gender-based pronouns such as "he" or "she" but I expected a genderless third-person pronoun and a plural to mean "they." Are such pronouns translated using {ko'a} he/she/it/they? I know that can apply, but doesn't it have to be assigned a referent with {goi}? Is that required? What if we want to leave {ko'a} unspecified except for a gender or number -- how is that expressed? -epkat _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com