From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 03 11:50:42 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1D6wLK-0007uE-G2 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:50:42 -0800 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1D6wLK-0007u9-Dq for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2005 11:50:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:50:42 -0800 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: personal pronouns Message-ID: <20050303195042.GI3172@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20050302211229.GN17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20050302213122.4914.qmail@web41908.mail.yahoo.com> <20050302213458.GO17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <200503031932.j23JWhTd003191@mole.e-mol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200503031932.j23JWhTd003191@mole.e-mol.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 1196 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 02:32:43PM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote: > Is {do'o} a plural "you" like the Spanish "usted"? So I gather. > Or is it only to be used when some of those it refers to are not > among the listener(s)? Well, see, that depends on how you've bound your listeners. If I'm talking to bab and raitcel: doi la .bab. xu do'o klama le zarci fi'o se kansa mi doi la .bab. .e la .raitcel. xu do klama le zarci fi'o se kansa mi Generally, it is assumed (at least by me) that you are talking to one person at a time. > How do we speak about the third person without including the first > or second person? Several options: ti/ta/tu le go'i/go'e/go'a/etc le ninmu/nanmu/remna poi la bab ko'a by (stands for bab, or whatever) > I know there are no gender-based pronouns such as "he" or "she" > but I expected a genderless third-person pronoun and a plural to > mean "they." Are such pronouns translated using {ko'a} > he/she/it/they? That's one way, yes. > I know that can apply, but doesn't it have to be > assigned a referent with {goi}? Is that required? Define "required". If you're talking to a computer, yes, but most humans can deal with "OK, the person we're talking about is now ko'a, despite this never really having been defined". doi .bab. la .raitcel. diklo ma .i mi pu kanpe[1] lo nu ko'a klama ti I'd just use 'ry' there myself, though. > What if we want to leave {ko'a} unspecified except for a gender or > number -- how is that expressed? da -Robin [1]: kanpe is a proposed experimental gismu meaning "expect", because it's really hard to get there from the current gismu list. It's just like pacna except without the connotation of desire. -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/