From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 08 14:27:34 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1D8nAs-0008OS-H1 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:27:34 -0800 Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.44) id 1D8nAf-0008NK-8d for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:27:34 -0800 Received: from mail.123.net (new.e-mol.com [65.169.135.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j28MQoTd020725 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:26:50 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:26:50 -0500 Message-Id: <200503082226.j28MQoTd020725@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: {nu penmi} versus {le nunpenmi} In-Reply-To: <20050302211229.GN17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20050302194910.GI17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <200503022031.j22KVQTd000469@mole.e-mol.com> <20050302211229.GN17705@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [209.220.229.254] Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: OK, what about {se}, {te}, {ve}, and {xe}? Since {jbena}'s place structure is "x1 is born to x2 at time x3 and place x4", can a lujvo be coined as {teljbena} to mean "birthday" and {veljbana} to mean "birthplace"? - epkat [...] Content analysis details: (-2.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.3 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list X-archive-position: 1206 X-Approved-By: mattarn@123.net X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners OK, what about {se}, {te}, {ve}, and {xe}? Since {jbena}'s place structure is "x1 is born to x2 at time x3 and place x4", can a lujvo be coined as {teljbena} to mean "birthday" and {veljbana} to mean "birthplace"? - epkat lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: >On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 03:31:26PM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote: >> Robin, >> >> What are the differences in usage and purpose between saying >> "meeting" as {le nu penmi}, and "meeting" as {le nunpenmi}? > >Well, technically "nunpenmi", being a lujvo, can mean whatever the >creator wants it to mean and have a really bizarre place structure >and so on. > >In practice, however, NU + selbri == nunselbri is used to drop a >level of nesting. Example: > >mi klama lo nu penmi lo nu gunka > >"I go to the meeting from the working". This is actually wrong, >however, because "lo nu" introduces a level of nesting which must be >closed by kei or vau: > >mi klama lo nu penmi kei lo nu gunka > >Or you can lose a bunch of syllables by: > >mi klama lo nunpenmi lo nu gunka > >For reasons that I'm not clear on, the construction like this that >has been used the most often IME is nunpenmi. Odd, but there you >are. > >> The same question applies not only to abstractors but to >> applications of {se}, {te}, {ve} etc. which I've seen incorporated >> into compound words as well. > >There are different reasons to do that. Generally, SE + brivla == >selbrivla is only used seriously when the x2 place has an obvious >natlang keyword and you want to stick it in a dictionary; so >"selkla" is useful because English (at least; I assume there are >many others) has a word for "destination", so often English speakers >want a single word for same. > >In more complicated lujvo, its effects are somewhat different, but >that gets pretty intense. I can expand on it if you want. > >> The first time I came across it a few years ago I was surprised >> because I thought only rafsi were used in compound words. > >They are; some cmavo have rafsi. 97 of them, in fact. > >-Robin > >-- >http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ >Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" >Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com