From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 11 06:14:10 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1D9ku1-00042w-OJ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:14:10 -0800 Received: from bay23-dav13.bay23.hotmail.com ([64.4.22.193] helo=hotmail.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1D9ktm-00042T-QU for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:14:09 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:13:23 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.218.132.157 by BAY23-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:13:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.218.132.157] X-Originating-Email: [betsemes@hotmail.com] X-Sender: betsemes@hotmail.com From: "Betsemes" To: References: <20050310195241.GG3265@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lo kansa gunka se pidversra xatra Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:07:29 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Mar 2005 14:13:23.0944 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C910E80:01C52644] X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-archive-position: 1242 X-Approved-By: betsemes@hotmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: betsemes@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners > On Wed, Mar 09, 2005 at 10:21:09AM -0400, Betsemes wrote: > > coi rodo > > Man. Bit intense for the beginner's list. Fully fleshed out lujvo > and everything. :-) BTW, most of us (i.e. those working on > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/) prefer the format "s1 helps / donates > to poor child s2=v1=p1 by means s4, child is of age v2 and > lacking in possessions/properties p2; s3 is 'poorness'". > > Wow. The whole thing parses, too. .io sai > Most of my success on building that lujvo was sheer luck. Just yesterday, I read the full list of morphology rules for proper Lojban words. I only was aware that the resulting lujvo had to end in a vowel by the time I made it up. So the fact that the resulting lujvo was morphologically correct was just luck. The only part I could be credited of is about the place structure, but since I bear a degree on mathematics and computer science, and I have mostly an academic formation as computer programmer, it is almost obvious that this part of lujvo building will be much easier for me than average. So I'm not deserving of your "{.io sai}". I had the lujvo definition in roughly the format you say, but I preferred something not bound to English because I crossposted to both Lojban-Beginners and the Spanish Lojban List (I hope crossposting to be OK). I appreciate your responses in Lojban without overdoing it. Even though this post could feel intense, I'm just a beginner. I still cannot manage long Lojban texts. > > > .i mi ba'o mutce prami lo se pidversra .ijanai le pidversra cu > > kurji lenu tavla le se pidversra > > Either I am finished loving a child I supported and it may or may > not be true that the child supporter cares for the talking of the > supported child, or neither of these are true. > Here you could see my weaker point in Lojban; my lack of knowledge on vocabulary. Whenever I need to write a sentence I have to do a lot of reading and looking up my word lists in order to do it as correct as possible. Here I obviously failed on conveying my idea. What I wanted to express was that we end up loving the sponsored children very much. I'm not sure if here I said it correctly in English as well. The idea is one of a process of building up a relationship and when we are done in building it (if that's possible), we love them very much. I searched my word lists looking for words to express the end on a building process but that the action would not be over in the aftermath. I obviously failed. What I wanted to say was: "We end up loving the supported children very much if the supporter cares of talking (by letter, I have some problems on finding a better way to convey the idea of communication by letter) to the supported children." > > > .i mi ka'e djuno tu'a lo xe pidversra > > I am capable of knowing about the things a supported child is > lacking. > > mi na jimpe > I wanted to say that by building a relationship with a poor child, we can know his/her needs, so that we can provide more effective support. Maybe it would be useful if I try to explain how this works. Above, I used the words "sponsor" to refer to this kind of support. It is a support given through a non-profit organization. World Vision calls "sponsorship" this kind of support. The sponsor pays a monthly flat sponsorship rate and that organization then provides what they need. If it weren't for organizations like this, we would never even know about the big needs people face in poor countries. Child sponsorship is a way to provide a community the means to survive and eventually put an end to the chain of poverty. But as a flat rate is not always good enough, we can know about some needs (the need for a good bed, for example) that would not be promptly fulfilled if it weren't for a constant letter communication. Explaining this would be too much for my current limited Lojban skills, so the conveyed idea was not a clear one for someone unfamiliar with this kind of thing. I made up the "pidversra" lujvo with the advise of the Mailing List in Spanish. Right there, Jorge told me that it was a lujvo that was too specific. Since I'm sponsoring four children, I felt I needed a lujvo that could bring all the ideas that would be communicated while talking about child sponsorship. It might never be a popular lujvo, but it is useful to me.