From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 22 23:07:29 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DDzxh-0001Gm-HF for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:07:29 -0800 Received: from [66.70.67.10] (helo=epmail2.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DDzxM-0001GU-Ib for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:07:29 -0800 Received: from shindra.com ([217.157.231.11]) by epmail2.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:58:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 8:06:57 +0100 To: From: Subject: [lojban-beginners] z and s? Re: Re: first question - Lojban c and j - what's the difference? Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2005 06:58:20.0342 (UTC) FILETIME=[B2907D60:01C52F75] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1306 X-Approved-By: jkominek@miranda.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: lojban@shindra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Thank you, that was a very good answer. Now the problem turns into the fact that I could never tell the difference between z and s :( this is where the vocal cords vs. friction should help me, but I guess I'm just not good at this :( does anyone have an idea of how I might be able to understand this? thanks - Shindra = = = Original message = = = The "j" sound, ZH, is voiced and the "c" sound, SH, is not. The difference is the same as the difference between S and Z. Or between F and V. Your vocal cords move with ZH, Z or V but with SH, S or F the sound is just the friction of blown air. - epkat lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: >In the "Lojban For Beginners" lessons, about consonants, it says that >" >c: sh, as in SHip >j: as in meaSure or French bonJour >" >but I can't hear/see/think/percieve the difference >help, please? > >- Shindra > >___________________________________________________________ >Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. >Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com.