From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Apr 22 14:55:27 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DP67T-00008D-4w for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:55:27 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.204]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DP67I-000079-7G for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:55:27 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so850413wra for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:54:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FG5E3j3nT+17Ecf/d110Y/uuLMXzoL6LUX+mDLx6HVDn+84XxKhT9JPuz6LnFkkYzRX4KmM4nodqCaPHlQl4+sufkuEFpSaFXQkq6qU5P8Cmua7fvgTCG26ipaOEhYU/A9uSdqt/PdUkfPlxBjdFEqKaXhQhgLldQ5CbOJO2GfI= Received: by 10.54.16.52 with SMTP id 52mr728758wrp; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d1756050422145486c127b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:54:38 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban beginners list In-Reply-To: <20050422195800.GB21958@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <5132817.1113846425529.JavaMail.stiofan@mac.com> <20050418174936.GW10596@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <5167424.1113864039505.JavaMail.stiofan@mac.com> <20050418230248.GA10596@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20050422195800.GB21958@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1384 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 4/22/05, Stiofan Mac Suibhne wrote: > > The arguments / relationships etc, I can't quite get the feel of how > that works. I speak several European languages so am only able to > express things in grammar terms I am familiar with at present. I > understand that one needs to understand something on its own terms, > but I would be grateful for any insights you might be able to give > me on how this might function, with examples in English of what > these relationships achieve. Are the arguments subject / object, > the relationships verbs as we might understand things at present. Basically, yes. Arguments don't just correspond to subject and object though. For example: mi ciska lo xatra lo pelji lo penbi (I) write (a letter) (on paper) (with a pen). {ciska} is the relationship that holds among the four arguments {mi}, {lo xatra}, {lo pelji} and {lo penbi}, in that order. > with gismu, in pairs tanru? the first modifies the second? Does > that mean that the first has the function that adjective or adverb > has in English (or French / Italian / Spanish / Gaeilge) Yes. The modifier can also be a noun in English: le cinfo kalte The lion hunter. mu'o mi'e xorxes