From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue May 10 05:33:35 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 10 May 2005 05:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DVTva-00066F-IS for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:33:34 -0700 Received: from bay23-dav4.bay23.hotmail.com ([64.4.22.184] helo=hotmail.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DVTvO-00065b-0e for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:33:33 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:32:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.218.132.157 by BAY23-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:32:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.218.132.157] X-Originating-Email: [betsemes@hotmail.com] X-Sender: betsemes@hotmail.com From: "Betsemes" To: References: <925d175605050611562e77935d@mail.gmail.com> <001301c55287$b7534f00$0200a8c0@crh37> <925d1756050507071558a93753@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605050907254976fd63@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605050910474cfaa3af@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: I'm a Believer Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:31:20 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2005 12:32:51.0293 (UTC) FILETIME=[619C90D0:01C5555C] X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-archive-position: 1432 X-Approved-By: betsemes@hotmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: betsemes@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners > > > Dreams (se senva) are abstractions too: "x1 dreams about/that > > > x2 (fact/idea/event/state)". > > > > > Could you give a definition/explanation of what is an abstraction? > > In Lojban, properties, events, propositions, etc are called > "abstractions", and the cmavo of selmaho NU are called > "abstractors". > I knew about the abstractors. What confuses me is that /mi pu steba ro se senva be mi/ has no such abstractor and yet steba requires an abstraction: steba: x1 feels frustration about x2 (abstraction) That leads me to conclude that abstractions do not necessarily requires an abstractor and thus it leaves me with a vague idea of what an abstraction is.