From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jun 10 15:30:42 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dgs1S-0001lT-Am for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:30:42 -0700 Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dgs1R-0001lM-Bv for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:30:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:30:41 -0700 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati Message-ID: <20050610223041.GT22480@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <20050608210056.GE15659@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d17560506081422399a5088@mail.gmail.com> <20050608220428.GF15659@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d1756050609072757542a3c@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605060911227d7c6445@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605060914082a76fce1@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 1511 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 10:57:05AM -0400, Betsemes wrote: > > Yes, but {mi nau zvati lo nu pu salci ca le prulamna'a} can also > > mean that I'm now at the place where a party was celebrated last > > year. {bu'u ko'a} indicates the location of ko'a, but ko'a has > > to be there at the time in question. It's not any location where > > ko'a was at any time. > > > > So while I understand a sentence such as "I > > > drink only water at the party" as referring to the same moment > > > and time of the party, I cannot connect a location tense word > > > (like bu'u) with the concept of an event which is located both > > > in space and time. > > > > Every physical object is located both in space and time, not > > just events. The peculiarity of events is that they tend to have > > a single space-time location and then disappear, whereas other > > objects tend to have extended trajectories in space-time, but > > there are exceptions in both camps. > > > I need to insist on this because I have seen a disagreement > between two "experts". If I haven't seen a disagreement, then I'd > accept that bu'u could refer to objects/events' locations both in > space and time; There is no disagreement about that: bu'u is solely about space. Period. We disagree about zvati. I'm starting to think that xorxes is right and the definition just needs to be updated. -Robin