From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 20 06:50:43 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1DvEyA-000762-WA for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:50:43 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.207]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1DvEy1-00075s-HT for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:50:42 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so1436867wra for ; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:50:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=MvaivKo5nznQrn9pfIlxN9zXqk41aFL4Waf47uUaTs/A1SFBQOBD6N9rQ9q+zzIvKWxqfsVJ6wJ1RxKpkJj0y4BhZ8zhC4q3YN0hb2opbBZZniDzdhHEKMJYA0XLeEUA1WtHdJSEoB8Qj5ymbmI0HHyLDmMGOS7QJTn2CIR3QQI= Received: by 10.54.92.2 with SMTP id p2mr85797wrb; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.35.75 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160507200649df8d16d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:49:50 -0400 From: Adam COOPER To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: coi rodo In-Reply-To: <42DDC05E.1070001@hypermetrics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2797_22192779.1121867390050" References: <42DACBF3.8020003@hypermetrics.com> <42DBFB07.8090409@yandex.ru> <42DD856B.4010506@hypermetrics.com> <20050720023241.GD2444@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <42DDBD99.2020702@hypermetrics.com> <20050720030236.GH2444@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <42DDC05E.1070001@hypermetrics.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 1605 X-Approved-By: adamgarrigus@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: adamgarrigus@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_2797_22192779.1121867390050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 7/19/05, Hal Fulton wrote: >=20 > >>>>My dialect of English doesn't have that x sound. > >>> > >>>No dialect of English has that sound. > >>> > >> > >>I'm no linguist, but I thought Scots used it (as in "loch"). > > > > > > Point. I'm no linguist either, but I thought that was an isolated > > borrowing, like "Bach". Do Scots have any *other* words with that > > sound? >=20 > Good question. I haven't a clue. >=20 > But my instincts tell me that if it were really an isolated > word, it would have gone to the "lock" pronunciation long, long ago. Scotland has three languages: Scots Gaelic (a Celtic cousin of Irish=20 Gaelic), Scots or Scots English (a cousin of England English), and England= =20 English. Scots is a separate language because it didn't undergo the melding= =20 of Anglo-Saxon tongues that occurred in England (7th - 14th c.). When=20 England & Scotland merged in 1707, England English became the standard up= =20 north. Anyway, "loch" is a Scots word, and Scots has ~/nixt/ for "night" an= d=20 others. But the England English with a thick Scottish accent still doesn't= =20 seem to have the /x/ sound. -- I lived in the capital for a little while &= =20 didn't hear much Scots & no Gaelic. They broadcast in Gaelic, but Scots I= =20 dunno. Google knows, as does the BBC. ------=_Part_2797_22192779.1121867390050 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 7/19/05, Hal Fulton <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:
<= span class=3D"gmail_quote">
>>>>My dialect of English doesn't have that x sound.
>>= ;>
>>>No dialect of English has that sound.
>>><= br>>>
>>I'm no linguist, but I thought Scots used it (as in = "loch").
>
>
> Point.  I'm no linguist either, but I th= ought that was an isolated
> borrowing, like "Bach". &= nbsp;Do Scots have any *other* words with that
> sound?

Good q= uestion. I haven't a clue.

But my instincts tell me that if it were really an isolated
word= , it would have gone to the "lock" pronunciation long, long ago.<= /blockquote>

Scotland has three languages: Scots Gaelic (a Celtic cousin of Irish Gaelic), Scots or Scots English (a cousin of England English), and England English. Scots is a separate language because it didn't undergo the melding of Anglo-Saxon tongues that occurred in England (7th - 14th c.). When England & Scotland merged in 1707, England English became the standard up north. Anyway, "loch" is a Scots word, and Scots = has ~/nixt/ for "night" and others. But the England English with a th= ick Scottish accent still doesn't seem to have the /x/ sound. -- I lived in the capital for a little while & didn't hear much Scots & no Gaelic. They broadcast in Gaelic, but Scots I dunno. Google knows, as does the BBC.

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