From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jul 23 04:33:45 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1DwIGG-0005ZQ-Tz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:45 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.199]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1DwIGD-0005ZJ-LX for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:44 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i8so683938wra for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:40 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=K/5a0iIPDSn1aulglSI6dxOnvd4BEGq/fs/CrChxPol8mGGMWO6kAg2NTL7eJrcHRbzzqzjt7okjRsEekRc2Gv62mhRa9qUa9eHQFlCa1o23dxEzPD6+tCKhQFHVnCF3YxH95MZR1naQDCes0nd35N383Uo+hz9Ru8sTFuC1wng= Received: by 10.54.3.6 with SMTP id 6mr1605324wrc; Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.125.8 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2005 04:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5ccdc75305072304331205cf63@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 07:33:40 -0400 From: "J. Scott Jewell" To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A few questions... In-Reply-To: <42E18CAE.9000804@hypermetrics.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_650_14443396.1122118420367" References: <42DDC358.5010302@hypermetrics.com> <200507210507.j6L57eTd000683@mole.e-mol.com> <42E0425B.6080108@hypermetrics.com> <925d175605072209276d17848c@mail.gmail.com> <42E1724B.3080608@hypermetrics.com> <5ccdc75305072216411f9070a2@mail.gmail.com> <42E18CAE.9000804@hypermetrics.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1632 X-Approved-By: thatskotkid@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: thatskotkid@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_650_14443396.1122118420367 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 7/22/05, Hal Fulton wrote: >=20 > J. Scott Jewell wrote: > > On 7/22/05, *Hal Fulton* > > wrote: > > > > Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > > > > > Maybe something like: > > > > > > | > > > batci | (fa) le gerku | (fe) le nanmu | (fi) (zo'e) | (fo) > > (zo'e) > > > | va (zo'e) > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > | > > > cu > > > > > > > > > What {va} does here is add an unnumbered place to the > > > place structure of {batci}. > > > > > > > Really. I thought I was saying "The dog bit that man over there." > > How would I say that then? > > > > > > Hal > > > > > > >From what I can tell, {le gerku cu batci le nanmu va} says something > > like "The dog bit the man, some distance away from here," while {le > > gerku cu batci le va nanmu} comes to "The dog bit the somewhat-distant= =20 > man." > > > > Although, maybe everyone involved in the discussion already had that in > > mind, and I'm just spouting irrelevant information. >=20 > Not irrelevant at all. I'm as confused as a clone on Father's Day. >=20 > Robin or someone, can you explain? >=20 >=20 > Hal I might be able to, depending on where the confusion lies. The difference i= n=20 placing the {va} just after the {le} of {le nanmu} is that it then becomes= =20 associated with {nanmu}. Sort of (but perhaps not really at all) like {le= =20 nanmu pe va}. So {le va nanmu} is like "the man of some distance away", or= =20 "the somewhat distant man", in the same way that {le mi nanmu} would be "th= e=20 man of me" or "my man". With {le nanmu va}, the va isn't attached to=20 anything and, I think, goes to the bridi overall by default. So {le gerku c= u=20 batci le nanmu va} (maybe, if I understand this) is the same as {le gerku v= a=20 cu batci le nanmu}, which both mean that the whole event is going on some= =20 distance away from the speaker, or the here-and-now, or what have you. If= =20 you went with {le gerku cu batci va le nanmu}, {le nanmu} would become=20 attached to {va}, and you'd get "the dog bites [something] some distance=20 away from the man."=20 Again, though, I may or may not be off my nut. - cuncuxnas ------=_Part_650_14443396.1122118420367 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 7/22/05, Hal Fulton <hal9= 000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:
J. Scott Jewell wrote:
> On 7/22/05, *Hal Fulton* <hal9000@hypermetrics.com
> <mailt= o:hal9000@hypermetrics.com&= gt;> wrote:
>
>     Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote:
>&nb= sp;     >
>     =  > Maybe something like:
>      = ;>
>      >   &nbs= p;        |
>  &nbs= p;   >      batci | (fa) le gerku | (fe) le nanmu | (fi) (zo'e) | (fo)
>  &nb= sp;  (zo'e)
>      > | va (zo'e= )
>      >    &n= bsp; ---------------------------------------------
>  =     >        = ;    |
>      >&= nbsp;           cu
>      >
>   &= nbsp;  >
>      > What = {va} does here is add an unnumbered place to the
>   &= nbsp;  > place structure of {batci}.
>   =    >
>
>     Really. I th= ought I was saying "The dog bit that man over there."
>     How would I say that then?
>
>=
>     Hal
>
>
>  >= ;From what I can tell, {le gerku cu batci le nanmu va} says something
&g= t; like "The dog bit the man, some distance away from here," whil= e {le
> gerku cu batci le va nanmu} comes to "The dog bit the somewha= t-distant man."
>
> Although, maybe everyone involved in t= he discussion already had that in
> mind, and I'm just spouting irrel= evant information.

Not irrelevant at all. I'm as confused as a clone on Father's Day.<= br>
Robin or someone, can you explain?


Hal
<= br>
I might be able to, depending on where the confusion lies.  The difference in placing the {va} just after the {le} of {le nanmu} is that it then becomes associated with {nanmu}.  Sort of (but perhaps not really at all) like {le nanmu pe va}.  So {le va nanmu} is like "the man of some distance away", or "the some= what distant man", in the same way that {le mi nanmu} would be "the ma= n of me" or "my man".  With {le nanmu va}, the va isn't atta= ched to anything and, I think, goes to the bridi overall by default.  So {le gerku cu batci le nanmu va} (maybe, if I understand this) is the same as {le gerku va cu batci le nanmu}, which both mean that the whole event is going on some distance away from the speaker, or the here-and-now, or what have you.  If you went with {le gerku cu batci va le nanmu}, {le nanmu} would become attached to {va}, and you'd get "the dog bites [something] some distance away from the man."&= nbsp;

Again, though, I may or may not be off my nut.

 - cuncuxnas

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