From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 01 10:32:39 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 01 Aug 2005 10:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Dze9X-0006zR-A1 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 10:32:39 -0700 Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1Dze9P-0006zK-4n for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 10:32:39 -0700 Received: from mail.123.net (nobody@new.e-mol.com [65.169.135.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j71HWSTd019897 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:32:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:32:28 -0400 Message-Id: <200508011732.j71HWSTd019897@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Diagramming Lojban In-Reply-To: <42EC63A1.1030702@hypermetrics.com> References: <42EBF0D9.1010801@hypermetrics.com> <42EC63A1.1030702@hypermetrics.com> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [209.220.229.254] Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 1663 X-Approved-By: mattarn@123.net X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Yes, I'm interested in developing the diagram system. It seems that this discussion is not out of place on the beginners list, at least at first. I see you've put {cu} on a branch. Perhaps this can be done for all elidable words? That is, words that can be dropped from the sentence are elidable. Many terminators are that way, such as the ones that close off a clause or phrase. I really believe you don't convey the nesting visually while sticking to a one-line format. I'd like to see boxes within boxes. I'd like to see cmavo that open or terminate a construct be written up-to-down or down-to up on the vertical side walls of the box that encloses that construct. I can't scan in the drawing until I get home. Tenses aren't the only selma'o that can create a new place. Modals do that for instance. All of these open a new sumti box and could be written vertically on the left border. Since a selbri (the relationship of the sentence) can be visualized as a gizmo with sockets on it, and you plug the sumti (the things that are related) into the sockets, maybe instead of boxes the sentence can be drawn like a competition ladder. On the left is X1, with a line into the selbri. The selbri line branches into up to four lines to the right, representing the places of that selbri. -Matt lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: >Zachary wrote: >> On Jul 30, 2005, at 4:27 PM, Hal Fulton wrote: >>> >>> I would suggest we start with the simplest, most common forms. >>> >>> Are you interested in pursuing this together? Should we talk off-list >>> so as not to subject others to it? >>> >> >> Hey now! I may not say anything, and I can't even understand half of >> what's said on this list, but I find the idea of diagraming lojban to be >> great and I'd like to read about it on the list even if I can only >> understand a little. Heck, maybe I can help a little. Heavens know I >> really need the experience and learning. >> > >I'm not opposed to discussing it here, I just didn't want anyone to be >bored or annoyed by it. > >For what it's worth, here is a good link on diagramming English: >http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm > >The style shown there is, as far as I can see, identical to what I >was taught as a child. > >This is the general "type" of diagram I had in mind, as you can see >from my earlier post. > >As for opening new sumti with {va} or something, I suppose I would >favor the use of a double bar to indicate the end of the "standard" >sumti. > > | > batci | le gerku | le nanmu | (zo'e) | (zo'e) || va (zo'e) > --------+--------------------------------------------------- > | > cu > >Does this seem reasonable? Where would we go next? > >Hal _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com