From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 01 14:41:52 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Dzi2h-0003bf-Pa for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:41:51 -0700 Received: from ms-smtp-05.texas.rr.com ([24.93.47.44] helo=ms-smtp-05-eri0.texas.rr.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Dzi2b-0003bX-RZ for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 14:41:51 -0700 Received: from hypermetrics.com (cpe-66-68-164-156.austin.res.rr.com [66.68.164.156]) by ms-smtp-05-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j71LfgB2021355 for ; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:41:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42EE9716.7070700@hypermetrics.com> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:41:42 -0500 From: Hal Fulton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4.1) Gecko/20031114 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Diagramming Lojban References: <42EBF0D9.1010801@hypermetrics.com> <42EC63A1.1030702@hypermetrics.com> <200508011732.j71HWSTd019897@mole.e-mol.com> In-Reply-To: <200508011732.j71HWSTd019897@mole.e-mol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 1665 X-Approved-By: hal9000@hypermetrics.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: hal9000@hypermetrics.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Matt Arnold wrote: > > I see you've put {cu} on a branch. Perhaps this can be done for all elidable > words? That is, words that can be dropped from the sentence are elidable. Many > terminators are that way, such as the ones that close off a clause or phrase. I put it there just so it would be near the selbri, under the separator bar to emphasize its use as a separator. > I really believe you don't convey the nesting visually while sticking to a > one-line format. I'd like to see boxes within boxes. It wouldn't be one line in a more complex example. In a simple example, one line is sufficient. Did you follow the link I mentioned? I think the use of branching and (esp.) the use of pedestals is good enough to handle nesting. (See for example the diagram of the opening sentence of the US Constitution.) If not, let's find out why not. I sympathize with the idea of boxes, but I wouldn't really want to draw those or even look at them. ;) > I'd like to see cmavo that open or terminate a construct be written up-to-down > or down-to up on the vertical side walls of the box that encloses that construct. > I can't scan in the drawing until I get home. Vertical or diagonal text is fine with me. > Tenses aren't the only selma'o that can create a new place. Modals do that > for instance. All of these open a new sumti box and could be written vertically > on the left border. Let's also consider the possibility of keeping it horizontal and left-justifying it. > Since a selbri (the relationship of the sentence) can be visualized as a gizmo > with sockets on it, and you plug the sumti (the things that are related) into the > sockets, maybe instead of boxes the sentence can be drawn like a competition > ladder. On the left is X1, with a line into the selbri. The selbri line branches > into up to four lines to the right, representing the places of that selbri. That is a *very* interesting technique also. I may like that better than my idea. Hal > -Matt > > > lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: > >>Zachary wrote: >> >>>On Jul 30, 2005, at 4:27 PM, Hal Fulton wrote: >>> >>>>I would suggest we start with the simplest, most common forms. >>>> >>>>Are you interested in pursuing this together? Should we talk off-list >>>>so as not to subject others to it? >>>> >>> >>>Hey now! I may not say anything, and I can't even understand half of >>>what's said on this list, but I find the idea of diagraming lojban to be >>>great and I'd like to read about it on the list even if I can only >>>understand a little. Heck, maybe I can help a little. Heavens know I >>>really need the experience and learning. >>> >> >>I'm not opposed to discussing it here, I just didn't want anyone to be >>bored or annoyed by it. >> >>For what it's worth, here is a good link on diagramming English: >>http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm >> >>The style shown there is, as far as I can see, identical to what I >>was taught as a child. >> >>This is the general "type" of diagram I had in mind, as you can see > >>from my earlier post. > >>As for opening new sumti with {va} or something, I suppose I would >>favor the use of a double bar to indicate the end of the "standard" >>sumti. >> >> | >> batci | le gerku | le nanmu | (zo'e) | (zo'e) || va (zo'e) >> --------+--------------------------------------------------- >> | >> cu >> >>Does this seem reasonable? Where would we go next? >> >>Hal > > > _______________________________________________________ > Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com > > > > > >