From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 16 16:58:05 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E5BJl-00067k-DZ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:58:05 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E5BJg-00067N-CL for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:58:05 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so52799wra for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:57:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=P8OUMN9oylERWfqdAtn9UMWO3i0e6P2jeZECetFMP21BCFcg0bCMWsdiPurhXHsNaCfKVOcO72T8IHPBjL6YWwghtE0xO1YifEkjwFz1Qc8d9WlmoeWds1DnIZ9CmciHafxQONOnbeUvW8AutFrccyU+nvFC4vRUiWJ3YbyglnQ= Received: by 10.54.26.63 with SMTP id 63mr42490wrz; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.68.12 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:57:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560508161657244f2bb8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:57:59 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: alice questions In-Reply-To: <737b61f30508141443b15fcc7@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <737b61f30508141443b15fcc7@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1744 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/14/05, Chris Capel wrote: > First, {bo}. When you see the sequence {i PU bo}, does that mean that > bo is grouping the two bridi together, using the sense of the PU cmavo > used? Yes, more generally any {i bo}. > Second, {lo blabi ractu poi xunblabi se kanla}. Why doesn't this mean > "a white rabbit with a pink body"? It's a tanru. {broda brode} doesn't have to mean {broda je brode}. Often it can mean something like {brode be lo broda}. For example {cinfo kalte} "lion hunter", is more likely hunter of lions than lion and hunter. >{se kanla} is the body that holds > the eyes, right? So {xunblabi se kanla} means "pink [type-of] being > body(ies) with eyes" or something, not anything close to "having pink > eyes". "Pink eyed". It could be "pink and eyed", but it can also just as well be "eyed by a pink thing". > Oh, and why the {poi}? Oughtn't it be {lo blabi ractu noi kanla > noi xunblabi}? (The two noi's there modify {lo blabi ractu}.) > It seems like non-restrictive ought to be the default, > being less error-prone, and it doesn't seem that {poi} is required > here. I don't see a problem with {poi} here. It restricts the sense of {blabi ractu} to just those that have pink eyes. > Third. In {i la'e di'u no'e ba'e mutce le ka cizra}, what kind of > cadence might that be spoken with? Is stress usually put on {ba'e}, or > on the next word? One theory is that you could/should read it in a monotone, the emphasis being taken care of just by the presence of {ba'e}. I would emphasize the next word, never {ba'e}. > And in {leka} and {lenu}, is stress usually put on > the first or second cmavo? I tend to stress the second if any, and don't usually write them together. > I realize that there's probably no > consensus on this, as no standard for the spoken language has really > coalesced from usage, there being little vocal usage between > geographically separated speakers. That's right. > And in three-syllable lujvo where > the penultimate is "y", like {sezysku}, is the stress on the > penultimate or the ... um ... third-to-last? (antepenultimate? > penulpenultimate? anteanteultimate?) Antepenultimate. Or, if you prefer, it's the penultimate non-y syllable. y is never stressed, it doesn't count for the penultimate stress rule. > One more thing. Are many of the {le} used in Alice better changed to > {lo} after xorlo? Probably. Especially in front of abstractors I would tend to use {lo} now. mu'o mi'e xorxes