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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: tanru with conversions
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On 8/21/05, Chris Capel <pdf23ds@gmail.com> wrote:
> .i remai abu catlu
> lei mlana be le jintyke'a gi'e facki le du'u my culno loi se kajna
> tanxe ku joi loi cukta kajna

"then she looked at the sides of the well, and noticed that 
they were filled with cupboards and book-shelves;"

> OK, so what's the deal with {se kajna tanxe}? Does the first place of
> the seltau matter where the first place of the tertau doesn't? 

The places of the tertau always matter, because those are
the places of the tanru. What is never explicit is how the
places of the seltau fit with the places of the tertau. They
may even not fit at all.

> If no
> then why ever use a place conversion on a seltau with no filled sumti?

The {se} selects the x2 of {kajna} as the most important modifier
place.

> Is this discussed anywhere in CLL?

Chapter 5, Section 11 has {cadzu se klama} as an example,
but I don't find anything with a transformed modifier.
 
> And what exactly does {se kajna tanxe} mean? Boxes supported as if
> they were shelves? Or boxes on shelves? Something else?

I do remember I had quite some trouble trying to translate 
"cupboards". Suggestions welcome.

mu'o mi'e xorxes