From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 23 02:32:29 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E7V8v-0007Rf-2j for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:32:29 -0700 Received: from dionysos.oderland.com ([213.115.211.26]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1E7V8h-0007RX-Cv for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 02:32:28 -0700 Received: from c-0092e255.1210-16-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se ([85.226.146.0]) by dionysos.oderland.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.50) id 1E7V9f-0006do-RI for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:33:15 +0200 Message-ID: <430AEC2D.10304@handgranat.org> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:28:13 +0200 From: Sunnan User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050404) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: pronounciation problem References: <8f2fd4aa0508221308219e0853@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - dionysos.oderland.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - chain.digitalkingdom.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - handgranat.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 1834 X-Approved-By: sunnan@handgranat.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: sunnan@handgranat.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners (continuing the weird topposting habit) Thanks! If nothing else, that page reassured me that my idea of what the "correct" pronounciation was was correct, and I have something to refer my friends to. I guess I often have the same problem in English, not knowing when it's 'c' or 'j'. I find 'z' and 'j' easier when doing the drag king thing, talking from the lungs. I guess you've seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_dorso-palatal_velar_fricative Be sure to check out a guy saying "Skjuta" in five different dialects, linked to on the talk page. (Personally, given the following text: "Sjöstjärna skjuta, du får skitgärna lära känna min tjejkompis i köket" I'd pronounce the "sj", "stj", "skj" and "sk" the same way (in the top row), and the initial 'k' and the 'tj' another way (but same as each other). Other swedes might disagree. It's weird, this. I'd lojbanize "tjejkompis" as something between "ceikompis" and "tceikompis", depending on how fast you speak. The 't':s there, but I drop it sometimes and I've heard it dropped by others. The initial 'k' in "känna" and "köket" I'd lojbanize as 'c' only. The sj/stj/skj/sk sound I can't reproduce in lojban. I've heard it said as 'x' or 'c' by non-native swedes, and I guess it works.) Matt Arnold wrote: >There is a page on Wikipedia about this sound: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_postalveolar_fricative >When you click "Sound sample" it will take you to this page: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Voiced_postalveolar_fricative.ogg >where there is a sound file of a man saying "ja, aja". >The sound file is in .ogg format which is played by most free and open >source music programs. >-epkat > >On 8/22/05, Brandon Wirick wrote: > > >>Go with "locban," but voice the 'c'. It's like the difference between >>the second syllables in "pleasure" and "pressure," at least in >>American English. You're Swedish, right? I'm not familiar with how the >>English accents sound around there (although I will visit Sweden >>before I die.) >> >> >> >>>From: sunnan@handgranat.org >>>To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org >>>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:09:46 +0200 >>>Subject: [lojban-beginners] pronounciation problem >>>Everyone I know IRL, especially me (but maybe a dozen or so others), >>>have problems with the letter 'j'. It either comes out as i (as in >>>"loiban") or c (as in "locban"). Sometimes it becomes "lodjban" which >>>isn't acceptable, either. I've been able to say it correctly a few >>>times, but that's rare. >>> >>>Any help? >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > >