From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 05 13:57:15 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ECO1j-00087X-Hx for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:57:15 -0700 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com ([66.249.82.203]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1ECO1g-00087P-7J for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:57:15 -0700 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h31so912636wxd for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:57:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FqMJSr6QNOY8dWTkAfhSsUmcJfOG6v0snDTF00t0cv41cB9lDcm0d10iufyeV8YGLzXu5Nqli5WcxuReBST3sYnWMS7klUAHBGvfAMe3kJ3ABlJXK6Jj24EDDTCxhawt5ZIYm62x3+T4jUfKCrfzWNRbxGObSg5BsaWpuU5SD/M= Received: by 10.70.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr84779wxa; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.115.2 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c1605090513577b2c401c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:57:09 -0400 From: Adam COOPER To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: On Constructed Languages In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-archive-position: 1972 X-Approved-By: adamgarrigus@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: adamgarrigus@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners I came across Lojban some years ago, then didn't look at it again until last year, when e'e nai I began trying to learn it. -- I can't stand Esperanto. But I spent my childhood learning the basics of bunches of European languages, so Esperanto, which seems to be a European amalgam in all its aspects, seems superfluous to me. And also out of date. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan On 9/5/05, Matt Arnold wrote: > Different languages excel at different purposes. Many aesthetic languages > exist only to evoke an exotic culture such as Tolkein's Elvish languages. A > > lot of languages on Langmaker.com are only a handful > > of words to flesh out a fantasy world in a novel. Many of the authors of > logical languages or international auxiliary languages have planned and > conceptualized their first principles of design but only developed a > fraction of the grammar and vocabulary they need. There are few languages > that can be called mature and complete, with a sufficiently robust and > flexible grammar or a sufficiently thorough vocabulary to actually sustain > the universe of human discourse. For instance, there was one man who decided > > to raise his infant child as a native Klingon speaker but gave up quickly > because there were no words for everyday household items. Here's a list of > conlang "test" sentences: > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Conlang%20Test%20Sentences > As for Esperanto, it's a worthy and respectable language, and it's the > language you should learn if your purpose is to speak a conlang with as many > > people as possible. I personally dislike the fact that it's an amalgamation > > of only European languages. Esperanto is insufficiently alien, strange, or > modernized for my tastes. I chose Lojban for its thorough speakability, > which Esperanto shares, but mainly I chose Lojban for its systematic > functional elegance. More than any other complete language, Lojban can truly > > claim to be *engineered*. > As far as I know, the IRC lojban channel is the only Lojban forum in which > it is appropriate to discuss things other than Lojban in the English > language. But you can discuss anything while speaking Lojban on any Lojban > forum. > -epkat > > > On 9/5/05, Naomi K wrote: > > > > Heyaz > > Excuse me if I sound n00bish but only since my learning of Lojban have I > > taken notice of the wonderful world of contructed languages....Esperanto, > > > Ido, Glosa, Novial etc........ I am frankly amazed at the amount of > > languages; it really is fascinating, although I am not what I would > consider > > a 'hardcore' linguist or anything of the kind. What do you Lojbanists > think > > of the other artificial languages? What made you get into Lojban, not the > > > easier, more mainstream Esperanto? Do any of you speak in other > constructed > > languages? > > > > I was impressed by the description of Lojban on Conlangs.... > > Designed by others as a continuation of Loglan, > *Lojban > > * (its name is a contraction for "Logical Language" in Lojban) is the most > > > professional and thought-provoking of the modern logical languages, with a > > > fascinating methodology for deriving its root words from Arabic, Chinese, > > > English, Hindi, Russian and Spanish. Extensive information is available > > on-line. For the sheer joy of it, you should check out how Tolkien's > Tengwar > > alphabet can provide "a romantic orthography for Lojban". > > > > By the way, which mailing list (if any) is for miscellaneous, > > everyday-life kinda discussion? I would be interested in joining that too > > > (although that would defeat the purpose of a Lojban mailing list in the > > first place, eh ;-) ) > > > > mi'e .nei,omis. > > > > -- adamgarrigus@gmail.com | adamgarrigus@earthlink.net