From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 21 09:02:33 2005
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52)
	id 1EI73J-0006Kt-Nt
	for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:33 -0700
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.195])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52)
	id 1EI736-0006Kj-DQ
	for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:33 -0700
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so1023501nza
        for <lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org>; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=RIlZivPHpIGyNJ1VLwy4wwfpJ1kTCetYjC6IhB2KYeAiRo7YTDlZzu//ORn6ap5GStRTe3S4A2660fnsVzhBQjALN3mWPtIvNC3KEkSP1KUOBnGUOicdgFWWC/rqFSLcnHCVCVvPii7iQCDxJjZQd2AD9xC5OYeV/7QQVGY9PZQ=
Received: by 10.54.68.11 with SMTP id q11mr2547950wra;
        Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.54.66.3 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <925d17560509210902364ffc46@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:02:19 -0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: For those into diagramming...
In-Reply-To: <4330E5FA.4080401@hypermetrics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <4330E5FA.4080401@hypermetrics.com>
X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--)
X-archive-position: 2205
X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org
Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org
X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org
X-list: lojban-beginners

On 9/21/05, Hal Fulton <hal9000@hypermetrics.com> wrote:
> What I have so far is here:
> http://hypermetrics.com/lojban/lojdiag.html
>
> I've corrected most of the errors, perhaps all. No other
> changes since last week.

The one with {co} may need some reworking.

For example, if you have {ko'a ko'e broda co brode ko'i ko'o}
then ko'a and ko'e fill the x1 and x2 of broda, but ko'i and
ko'o fill the x2 and x3 of brode. All the sumti that appear
before the selbri {broda co brode} will be arguments of broda,
all the sumti that appear after the selbri will be arguments of
{brode}.

> I don't show any {xu} questions -- I think that I would
> put the {xu} near where it appears in the sentence, i.e.,
> before the selbri or after a sumti or whatever.
...
> Attitudinals and such, I'm not sure about.

Attitudinals and {xu} are all in the same selma'o UI, so they
should all be treated the same way. The meaning of the
word should not matter for structuring a sentence, only the
syntax class (selma'o) it belongs to.

How about doing something like this: Instead of lines use
filled-in coloured boxes. A big blue box will represent the bridi
(everything inside is part of the bridi). A blue box can contain
a single red box inside (the selbri) and as many yellow boxes
as you want (the sumti). You could have two different shades of
yellow one for intrinsic numbered arguments and one for
additional tagged arguments. Then for example {le zdani} will
be inside a yellow box, and inside that yellow box, {zdani} will
be in a smaller red box because it is a selbri, while {le} remains
in the yellow box but outside the inner red box, and similarly
(ku) because {le ... ku} converts a selbri into a sumti. Those
are the main three categories, then you could add another
colour for connectives, for example, say a green box
containing {.e} and joining two yellow boxes. A quote
like {lu mi klama le zarci li'u} is simply a yellow box (a sumti)
containing a blue box inside (a bridi) which in turn will contain
a red box with {klama} and two yellow boxes with {mi} and
{le zarci} (where {zarci} is in its own smaller red box).

This seems to produce simpler diagrams than the line
ones. poi and pe clauses could be orange boxes
attached to the corresponding yellow one. {be} really
goes inside the selbri, so for example in {le zdani be la djan}
(which goes in one big yellow box) {zdani be la djan} goes
in a red box inside the yellow one, with {la djan} in a smaller
yellow box inside the red one.

mu'o mi'e xorxes