From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 21 22:28:47 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EIJdX-0001hi-2n for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:28:47 -0700 Received: from athena.crschmidt.net ([65.110.51.60]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EIJdS-0001hZ-If for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:28:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (debian.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by athena.crschmidt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F64F15C8E6 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:29:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from athena.crschmidt.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (athena [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19163-01 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.42] (ontario-ca-cuda3-68-67-162-82.ontrca.adelphia.net [68.67.162.82]) by athena.crschmidt.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7A715C8E3 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Just got my speakers back online... From: Theodore Reed To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org In-Reply-To: <4332366C.2040704@hypermetrics.com> References: <4332366C.2040704@hypermetrics.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:28:33 -0700 Message-Id: <1127366913.8652.6.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at athena.crschmidt.net X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 2234 X-Approved-By: treed@surreality.us X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: treed@surreality.us Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 23:43 -0500, Hal Fulton wrote: > So naturally one of the first things I did was go hear > the podcast. :) > > I have no real complaints with the pronunciation. I think > Matt's accent is fairly neutral -- believe me, I have > heard all kinds of accents in the USA that are far heavier. > > I *thought* that he pronounced {gismu} a little off -- > perhaps with an English short i, but I wasn't sure. I heard the same thing. > I had a minor nit with {detri}, mostly because of a high > school speech teacher I had who was perhaps a little > overzealous. > > It took me a while to get what she was arguing, but in > the end I was convinced. Most people I've mentioned it > to are not convinced, so I won't be offended if you > tell me I'm crazy. > > Say something like "tuck" to yourself. Notice how you > manipulate your tongue on the t -- its initial position > and its motion. In my case, it starts out hovering on > that fleshy ridge behind the teeth, then it flicks away. > > Now say "truck" (as many/most Americans do). When I am > not being careful, it's completely different. My tongue > is curled backward, so that the tip is much farther back > (perhaps almost an inch?). The tongue is pressed harder > against the roof of the mouth, so that it makes much > more contact in terms of surface area. Then the motion > is a little slower because of the starting point and > the curled state of the tongue. > > In short, the word "trot" we might render in Lojban > as {trat} -- say it's a cmene or something. :) As far as I can tell, my tongue tip is in the same position for all of these, but if there's a following r, the sides are tucked in a bit in preparation for the r. > But what I/we really say is more like {tcrat}. And I'm pretty sure I don't say that. > When you say "trick" -- is the initial sound more like > the beginning of "tick" or the beginning of "chick"? > For many people, it's the latter. Not for me. > When I pronounce Lojban (which is only between me and the > cat so far), I try to be more precise than I usually would > in English. So I would pronounce {detri} less like {detcri} > and more like I imagine my old Kuwaiti roommate would have > done. > > My speech teacher was especially annoyed when a terminal t > was followed by an initial y ("Don't you want to come?") > and we would carelessly pronounce it something like "Doan > chew want to come?" ("Stop 'chew'-ing," she would say.) Okay, this I know I do on occaision. > Well, enough on that. Getting back to the podcast -- yes, > I liked it a lot. Well done, and keep them coming. > > > Hal > > > > >