From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Sep 22 07:39:15 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EISEF-0002ej-Mv for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:15 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.195]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EISEA-0002ea-GJ for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:15 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so286668nza for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=idoXyG5kWC/EVYMg36eIiTxgQ6YMhiyZ7g/XSsGCeHNEFLQQ2abkb93hmEgag7ks24Ks5WFF0wzPn5tCunb2lCOBBxpMNAYmw83KXt++/FZNBJGnVU79pnmvdVvh6uRDYN8IugVGaJFvMiWLNrU4p0QaHndoaPgRARXh/cRu1yc= Received: by 10.54.50.77 with SMTP id x77mr3202467wrx; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.142.3 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:39:08 -0400 From: Matt Arnold To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Continuing with beginner vocabulary tools ... In-Reply-To: <200509221146.25195.colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7372_1315663.1127399948254" References: <200509221146.25195.colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 2241 X-Approved-By: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_7372_1315663.1127399948254 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 9/22/05, Colin Wright wrote: > > > Using a "flash card" type program, it's a start to connect a lojban gismu > with > an english keyword, but there are also the places and the rafsi (if any) > to > learn. Consider the first gismu in Robin's SuperMemo list: cusku > > cusku cus sku express > x1 (agent) expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept) > for audience x3 > via expressive medium x4 > cf. bacru, tavla, casnu, spuda, ... > > Just what should we use as question/answer pairs for this? > > Clear we want > > lojban: cusku, english: ? > english: express, lojban: ? > > But we also want > > rafsi: cus, english: ? > rafsi: sku, english: ? > rafsi: cus, lojban: ? > rafsi: sku, lojban: ? > > Do we also want > > lojban: cusku x4, english: ? > > and other, similar delights? > > Memory drill systems, including mine, generally require short answers but > allow long questions. What should the questions be in this case to ensure > that the user/client/beginner/customer/learner remembers *all* of the > necessary information. For example, just how vital is it that they can > produce the rafsi given the english keyword? > > Colin, I consider the place structures to be one level of necessity behin= d the gloss word, and the rafsi to be a level behind that. So my plan has been, that when I finish committing all the gismu to memory, I'll start creating new flashcards for each gismu with {se} {te} {ve} and {xe} in front of them in order to memorize the place structures. For instance, since {cange} is "farm" and x3 of {cange} is "farmed by", {te cange} will be on the other side of a flashcard from {farmer}. When I've gone through all 3,000 or so of those, I'll start creating flashcards to memorize rafsi. Considering that you want a reduced set of flashcards, you definitely don't want to demand that rafsi be memorized. -epkat ------=_Part_7372_1315663.1127399948254 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 9/22/05, Colin Wright <colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> wrote:

Using a "flash card" type program, it's a start to connect a = lojban gismu with
an english keyword, but there are also the places and = the rafsi (if any) to
learn.  Consider the first gismu in Robi= n's SuperMemo list: cusku

    cusku cus sku     =  express
        x1 (agent)= expresses/says x2 (sedu'u/text/lu'e concept)
    &n= bsp;   for audience x3
     &nbs= p;  via expressive medium x4
     &nb= sp;  cf. bacru, tavla, casnu, spuda, ...

Just what should we use as question/answer pairs for this?

Clear we = want

    lojban: cusku,  english: ?    english: express,  lojban: ?

But = we also want

    rafsi: cus, english: ?
 = ;   rafsi: sku, english: ?
    rafsi: cus, lojban: ?
   &nbs= p;rafsi: sku, lojban: ?

Do we also want

   &nb= sp;lojban: cusku x4, english: ?

and other, similar delights?

= Memory drill systems, including mine, generally require short answers but
allow long questions.  What should the questions be in this c= ase to ensure
that the user/client/beginner/customer/learner remembers *= all* of the
necessary information.  For example, just how vita= l is it that  they can
produce the rafsi given the english keyword?

= Colin, I consider the place structures to be one level of necessity behind the gloss word, and the rafsi to be a level behind that.

So my plan has been, that when I finish committing all the gismu to memory, I'll start creating new flashcards for each gismu with {se} {te} {ve} and {xe} in front of them in order to memorize the place structures. For instance, since {cange} is "farm" and x3 of {cang= e} is "farmed by", {te cange} will be on the other side of a flashcard = from {farmer}. When I've gone through all 3,000 or so of those, I'll start creating flashcards to memorize rafsi.

Considering that you want a reduced set of flashcards, you definitely don't= want to demand that rafsi be memorized.
-epkat ------=_Part_7372_1315663.1127399948254--