From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 20 12:19:19 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ESfwd-00021R-3l for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:19 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1ESfwY-00021K-Of for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:18 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so194882wri for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=YJIV/in+GruzpF42KDuIWwURf1PjtPh20+V/tRDhQtYDXNu5UG1wEVvXGWiQgMZbTCxeJtYLBqI8dr8maA+ImQbU5zUpC/vkmVF6YlGf1O+uc+maLzdOzVnslXUOpY9eaY5yDqNzfVZm0XZ4OR1fbCa0cRXlJ82hTu6P121wheM= Received: by 10.54.144.3 with SMTP id r3mr996925wrd; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.66.3 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560510201219y25906a41q91f7ce13123ed6f0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:19:04 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: logic in english sayings In-Reply-To: <435796F1.5010909@virgin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051020124204.13000.qmail@web51512.mail.yahoo.com> <435796F1.5010909@virgin.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 2413 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 10/20/05, Jessica wrote: > {le flecu be temci}? ({be lo temci}. {be} attaches a sumti to a brivla.) >Given that what we are actually referring to is not > an particular interval or duration of time, but rather the flow of time > itself. lojban forces you to think clearly about what you are actually > trying to say. Whether we say that a duration of time waits or a flow of durations of time waits, in either case we are being metaphorical. "Flow of time" is itself a metaphor, because time is not some material that can literally flow. Flowing requires changing of position in space with time, and time is not something that moves in space. What would it mean for time to "wait"? That everything stands still... as time passes? That tides don't wait for anyone can be said more literally, because it is at least imaginable that a tide could wait. But of course Lojban, like all languages, allows for metaphors too. mu'o mi'e xorxes