From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Nov 26 05:34:16 2005
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:34:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54)
	id 1Eg0C0-0001dC-90
	for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:34:16 -0800
Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54)
	id 1Eg0Bx-0001d4-7F
	for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 05:34:15 -0800
Received: by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix, from userid 72)
	id 7DC1C270A9; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:34:09 +0200 (EET)
Received: from [139.179.97.195] (unknown [139.179.97.195])
	by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E37E26F80
	for <lojban-beginners@lojban.org>; Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:34:09 +0200 (EET)
Message-ID: <438871FA.7000706@bilkent.edu.tr>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:32:26 +0200
From: robin <robin@bilkent.edu.tr>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6-7.1.20060mdk (X11/20050322)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Schwa.
References: <20051114112350.48230.qmail@web51506.mail.yahoo.com>	 <20051114151923.GA575@beverly.caldwell.out> <2d3df92a0511160541l8ce4d74y26c8edc556319ac3@mail.gmail.com> <437BD141.3050606@hypermetrics.com>
In-Reply-To: <437BD141.3050606@hypermetrics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--)
X-archive-position: 2680
X-Approved-By: robin@bilkent.edu.tr
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-beginners

Hal Fulton wrote:
> HeliodoR wrote:
> 
>>     u in up
>>     u in pun
>>
>>     o in from
>>
>>     a in delta
>>
>>     "uh" when someoune says: "Uh, I don't know."
>>
>>  
>> Those are {a} sounds.
>> Schwa is what You don't ever pronounce clearly.
> 
> 
> I don't think of the short u as being like a schwa except
> when it is very short. Therefore I'd pronounce the second
> syllable in "delta" as a schwa (except when I'm being
> precise) and the others as a short u.
>
You're right. Schwa (represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet 
by an upside-down "e") is completely different from a short "u". The 
latter varies according to your dialect: in Standard British English is 
is the sound represented in IPA by an inverted "v"; however, many 
varieties of English pronounce it differently, hence the confusion. For 
example, in Northern England the sound is that of IPA (and Lojban) "u" 
(so Yorkshire "cup" rhymes with SE "look", while Yorkshire "look" rhymes 
with "shoe"). I'm not well up on American dialects, but I get the 
impression that in most places it is not a pure "u" sound.

robin.tr