From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Dec 14 11:24:53 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EmcFB-0005XN-Af for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:24:53 -0800 Received: from dionysos.oderland.com ([213.115.211.26]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.54) id 1EmcF7-0005Wv-W1 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:24:53 -0800 Received: from c-0b92e255.1210-16-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se ([85.226.146.11]) by dionysos.oderland.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1EmcEv-0000qn-1s for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:24:39 +0100 Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ok, lambda/currying-geeks needed (was Re: Re: "Once More") From: Sunnan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <925d17560512141053h13e65826t1f4e53636fab6088@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d58c160512120619v1ed1cdcp49af8ae1b4f3f86a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560512121409o663e2a7ekae04309af89c599a@mail.gmail.com> <762741971.20051213083403@mail.ru> <1134564388.5808.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <925d17560512141053h13e65826t1f4e53636fab6088@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:24:38 +0100 Message-Id: <1134588279.5808.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - dionysos.oderland.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lojban.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - handgranat.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 2771 X-Approved-By: sunnan@handgranat.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: sunnan@handgranat.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 15:53 -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 12/14/05, Sunnan wrote: > > BTW, xorxes, are su'i and vu'u what Haskell programmers would call > > "curried"? > > What would you do with them if they were? {li su'i pa} is grammatical, > but I would take it to be just {li pa}. I don't remember this ever being > dealt with however. Robin suggests: "Not if you want to use it in front of tenses. The idea would be to have PA that mean "plus one" and "minus one", analogous to da'a or za'u, with the current value as the default." Maybe these tense-prefixing PA could be constructed from su'i pa with the proper currying/lambda-wrapping method? > > I still haven't learned the mekso system but that's something I really > > want to do. > > I don't like lojban mekso very much, I try to avoid them as much as > possible. I've also heard nothing but bad about the mekso system. I've hardly looked at it so I don't have an opinion of my own yet. I do totally dislike Lojbans attitudinal system[1] so I know that Lojban isn't perfect. But it would be a shame if the mekso system was also bad. The mekso system is one of my major reasons for learning Lojban (that and writing explicit but non-sexist (and hopefully PC) erotica with no characters having specified genders, ahahahahaha). mi'e snan [1]: One problem with the attitudinal system is that it's based on opposing axes, like love being an opposite of hate. Another is that it's constructed from a list of English emotions -- one of the first things I wanted to write/say was an attitudinal to replace "the tone of voice you have when revealing a great secret", and of course, non exists. I've seen complaints by others that there's also no simple attitudinal for non-English concepts like shadenfreude or ennui and I agree with this problem. It's so limited, static, frozen. Here's more: Nausea, isolation (scratch this one, I guess o'enai does the job), suspicion, jealousy, righteousness, and more? Some of these may exist but it's not an easy system to find my way around, it's more like a static list of emotions coupled with negations and (somewhat arbitrary) oppositions. Thirdly, and related to both preceding problems -- it's so distinct from regular lojban, it feels like it's painted on or glued on. It's not based on gismu or selbri or anything else.