From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 05 09:07:22 2006
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:09:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60)
	(envelope-from <nobody@digitalkingdom.org>)
	id 1EuYaA-0000pC-ND
	for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:07:22 -0800
Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.206])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60)
	(envelope-from <betsemes@gmail.com>)
	id 1EuYa7-0000p4-Fc
	for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:07:22 -0800
Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id y38so1235307nfb
        for <lojban-beginners@lojban.org>; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:06:42 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
        b=g+b/T1r0hZlYXQobIf/FUDlyRtL53HHbez8tCyq0B+FAYk1lyiedxuHBCDJ3MgN0N2DlaeUzV/vtgc/2/477xkaFH8wVhnWgLX9ucCAxac7z9ovEdxYw5byrMmZyiuoU5EuXq98ghoFxzUC4Gxmut10cUq4tpskEWtkQLMy5h7I=
Received: by 10.48.215.17 with SMTP id n17mr731878nfg;
        Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.49.32.15 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <f5d9f4490601050906x54187418k3afb526de6da3d91@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:06:42 -0400
From: Betsemes <betsemes@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "la" questions
In-Reply-To: <925d17560601041117x3b36c606wd5c02da6261ff189@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <43B59F56.1030508@bcpl.net>
	 <925d17560601011001paebafa6kd80f4f7e25663e11@mail.gmail.com>
	 <008601c6114d$1df5f490$a0d2400a@caroe1>
	 <925d17560601041117x3b36c606wd5c02da6261ff189@mail.gmail.com>
X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--)
X-archive-position: 2891
X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: betsemes@gmail.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-beginners

> The benefit of separating CMENE from BRIVLA is that you
> can say {la djan klama} instead of having to say {la djan cu klama}.
>
> The disadvantages are that:
> -  you have to learn more grammar rules.
> -  you have to say {la noi cmalu djan} instead of {la cmalu djan}
> for "Little John".
> - you have to say {lo me la makyntoc skami} instead of {lo makyntoc skami}
> for "a MacIntosh computer".
> - you have to say {mi me la xorxes} instead of {mi xorxes}.
>
> I think the disadvantages far outweigh the benefit, but that's how it
> was done.

Nobody has tried to refute you, so I guess you are right. And if I may
say so, some of those grammatical constructs are ugly compared to the
alternative ungrammatical ones. I would have preferred to have to
write/say "la djan cu klama".

Hmm, >>mi xorxes<<, "mi betsemes". This sounds like using cmene as
brivla; something like "x1 is called/has the name <cmene>".

Let me see.....

mi betsemes
I'm called Betsemes

lo betsemes karce
Betsemes' car

lo betsemes
a Betsemes (anyone(s) or something(s) called Betsemes)

le betsemes
someone(s) or something(s) I have in mind and I'm calling Betsemes

la nolraitru betsemes
King Betsemes (or Sovereign Betsemes)
I have been wondering how to use nobility or rank titles in a name, I
still have no idea. If cmene could be used this way, the usage would
be straight forward. But I guess it is <la noi nolraitru betsemes>;
ugly, a real king would be displeased :-).

le nobli je se sinma remna noi betsemes
the noble and well esteemed human being called Betsemes
hmmmm I should stop before someone just laughs at me. LOL

This way of using cmene would make "mi'e" unnecessary.

I think I like this other way much better than the chosen one. And it
was just to save a single "cu"......