From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jan 23 03:19:26 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F0zjG-0001R3-2X for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:19:23 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.201]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F0zin-0001Ql-60 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:19:17 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so768619wra for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:18:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=f2mVyDzCdWMT30jkPbFdMpxL7VcehMrkHZlLvHmFJneNibuDTRVO5l1fQxTO6WAYKs1aLaz8SDJ7eowb7djWCZoXTj7QZpLqdASaUtznABlMxafRC8q/NJecZvD4jEVjhaXpDcBYIrLBuLoVMDFlFntT8cThLiyHxVVrLxBHp1g= Received: by 10.54.138.6 with SMTP id l6mr7317737wrd; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.124.13 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 03:18:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c4e58c10601230318s6ccd313y55fda6c6dacb0eed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:18:45 +0000 From: Evgeny Sklyanin To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: pamoi le'i dotco prenu poi ... In-Reply-To: <263467137.20060123160543@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1381_13606016.1138015125260" References: <4c4e58c10601210629l21988e7cka8d15320681775b@mail.gmail.com> <20060123082902.58793.qmail@web51505.mail.yahoo.com> <4c4e58c10601230123m1b6da8f7p2822081ddc834cce@mail.gmail.com> <263467137.20060123160543@mail.ru> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 2988 X-Approved-By: eks2005@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eks2005@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_1381_13606016.1138015125260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 1/23/06, Yanis Batura wrote: > > 23.01.2006, 15:23 Evgeny Sklyanin wrote: > > > The jbofi'e parsing > > > > > > (0[do CU { <(1le'i [{dotco prenu} {poi > KU'O}] KU)1 VAU>}])0 > > > > seems to support my variant: the descriptor {le'i} extends to > > the whole tail ofthe sentence, including the {poi} clause. The > > argumentx2 of {pamoi} isthus "the set of those germans, who I > > met", not just the set of some germans, if I read it correctly. > > > > mi'e .evgenis. > > But we know that jbofi'e isn't *official* in the sense of final > verdict. Perhaps it'd be better to consult the CLL? Actually, I don't see other possible parsing of the phrase. The structure o= f the phrase is exactly the same as for, say, do viska le xirma poi mi nelci =3D You see the horse which I like. If the scope of {le} terminates after {xirma} there is simply no place to attach the {poi} clause. The interpretation proposed by Opi Lauma, "You are the first of Germans, and the one who I met" would correspond to something like do du le pamoi be lei dotco prenu be'o poi mi penmi mi'e .evgenis. ------=_Part_1381_13606016.1138015125260 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 1/23/06, Yanis Batura <ybatura@mai= l.ru> wrote:
23.01.2006, 15:23 Evgeny Sklyanin wrote:

> The jbofi'e parsing>
>
>  (0[do CU {<pa moi> <(1le'i [{do= tco prenu} {poi <mi CU (2penmi VAU)2> KU'O}] KU)1 VAU>}])0
>=   
>  seems to support my variant: the descriptor {le'i} extends = to
> the whole tail ofthe sentence, including the {poi} clause. The> argumentx2 of {pamoi} isthus "the set of those germans, who I> met", not just the set of some germans, if I read it correctly.
>  
>  mi'e .evgenis.

But we know t= hat jbofi'e isn't *official* in the sense of final
verdict. Perhaps it'd= be better to consult the CLL?

Actually, I don't see other possible parsing of the phrase. The structure o= f the phrase is exactly the same as for, say,
do viska le xirma poi mi nelci =3D You see the horse which I like.
 If the scope of {le} terminates after {xirma} there is simply no plac= e to attach the {poi} clause.

The interpretation proposed by Opi Lauma,
"You are the first of Germans, and the one who I met" would corre= spond to something like
 do du le pamoi be lei dotco prenu be'o poi mi penmi
 
mi'e .evgenis.

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