From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Feb 17 05:47:24 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FA5xE-0002SM-AF for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:24 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FA5xC-0002SE-7V for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:24 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so404701wra for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:20 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MyNthmSs7XYwdnibXBhGgsHKBcw9hOjUmZczh0ImPJ/Vdx7hdmf3C9cC1L4umd5/q4KSW3OjFL8TeMFVZkMyUvQjge5oAcvAtXulcRWsAoM07xmtje/qokfRxxrEA4BYB7m/6CyrnHGN2yG0RRM+laI0C5tlLw9q7G5n49uygG4= Received: by 10.54.142.14 with SMTP id p14mr794818wrd; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.67.14 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560602170547l2cfcb393l8bbc2856f1bdb4ed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:47:18 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Subjunctive in Lojban In-Reply-To: <2904794D-D415-4161-AF22-2B018EE3667E@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <3DE4E0C2-34FA-4CDB-A3A1-D0EBD27F7D86@umich.edu> <20060217001040.GA26978@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <2904794D-D415-4161-AF22-2B018EE3667E@umich.edu> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3062 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 2/16/06, Alex Joseph Martini wrote: > So would {mi xusra lenu la djan. klama le zarci} as compared to {mi > xusra da'i lenu la djan. klama le zarci} parallel {I assert that John > goes to the market} as compared to {I assert that John [should] go to > the market}? First of all, notice that {da'i}, like all words in selma'o UI, modifies the preceding word, not what follows. There you have it modifying {xusra}, not {le nu la djan...}, so it says something like "Suppose I were to *assert* that John goes to the market". (Also, the x2 of xusra should really take a du'u rather than a nu, you don't assert events.) I might say {mi pu xusra lo du'u .ei la djan klama le zarci} for "I asserted that John should go to the market", but I don't think you should really use {xusra} to *make* an emphatic assertion. {xusra} should be used to report someone (or even yourself) making assertions, but not to make them. To make assertions you don't need any marker, but you can use {ju'a} for emphasis: ju'a la djan klama le zarci John goes to the market. .ei la djan klama le zarci John should go to the market. ke'u ju'a la djan klama le zarci I insist that John goes to the market. ke'u .ei la djan klama le zarci I insist that John go to the market. ke'u la djan ju'a klama le zarci I insist that *John* goes to the market. ke'u la djan .ei klama le zarci I insist that *John* go to the market. mu'o mi'e xorxes