From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Feb 17 10:51:28 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FAAhT-0004va-S8 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:27 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.205]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FAAhS-0004vT-30 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:27 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i32so203159wra for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:24 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JvSvA/QaHIS8aFOgUdKOt6MQcj4MjhMvUfDJjYGr6/H1alCyZxvd9MOrwZpahyi2Tl/uaD314fqhi2KOjfvvfSJa7J+0KHnc3g+33l++nlhCOM1qIxn+SR+rXgxkH/MrUJNvZQ2xXbI1u7iFEwMVB8gQ2WrHsgnC3lTZSYjs2fs= Received: by 10.54.101.6 with SMTP id y6mr1365750wrb; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.67.14 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:51:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560602171051k3d86e4a2k23b18fc2cb7ea5b8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:51:24 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Attitudinal use (was: Subjunctive in Lojban) In-Reply-To: <20060217170908.GB8619@netbsdbox.apache.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <3DE4E0C2-34FA-4CDB-A3A1-D0EBD27F7D86@umich.edu> <20060217001040.GA26978@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <2904794D-D415-4161-AF22-2B018EE3667E@umich.edu> <925d17560602170547l2cfcb393l8bbc2856f1bdb4ed@mail.gmail.com> <20060217170908.GB8619@netbsdbox.apache.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3065 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 2/17/06, Jonathan Derque wrote: > Le 17 Feb, à 10:47, Jorge Llambías ecrivit : > > .ei la djan klama le zarci > > John should go to the market. > > Could we use attitudinals that way ? > I thought attitudinals reflect the *speaker* feelings, not x1's feelings. Attitudinals are not necessarily about feelings, but yes, they are always expressions of the speaker. > IMHO, in {.ei la djan klama le zarci}, {.ei} doesn't pertain to john, not the > speaker. Am I completly wrong ? It is the speaker who expresses that it ought to be the case that {la djan klama le zarci}, yes. John may not even be aware of it, and it does not pertain to John any more than to le zarci. It is an expression about the bridi as a whole. mu'o mi'e xorxes