From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Feb 17 12:23:32 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FAC8a-00023P-Bt for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:32 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FAC8S-00023C-Hl for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:32 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 57so488799wri for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LseYNofMTDm5VrGRQ72PYb40PNkUbYhLpz8+0HdYEIOYHRo1BoiSdD3DmMM0zHVcIteSZw6F11k1/tIGTb3hsnMgqO+FCbBOi/k1qRsmpwxrBr4K5OpnUlvyoHmz3v+JMoo7i6nBaG+/E0IzDrvPMSu+/DYo6DP1KMiascrZHFg= Received: by 10.54.98.5 with SMTP id v5mr1571631wrb; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.67.14 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560602171223y27eca29ai76d195e5c14fdbc0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:23:22 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Subjunctive in Lojban In-Reply-To: <43F62654.9090809@thestonecutters.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <3DE4E0C2-34FA-4CDB-A3A1-D0EBD27F7D86@umich.edu> <43F62654.9090809@thestonecutters.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3068 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 2/17/06, gvprtskvni (you peel us) wrote: > > Unless this has been changed by the BPFK, the CLL shows there are 2 > types of UI. The CLL separates the UIs of form VV (not all UIs) into two classes, yes. This has been maintained by the BPFK (although perhaps not the exact division): However, CLL also points out that the distinction between the two classes is not clearcut, and in some cases assigning a given cmavo to one or the other class is fairly arbitrary. > One modifies the truth value of the bridi, essentially > making it hypothetical. And the other maintains the truth value and > expresses an emotion about it. I believe that .a'o (hope) is in the > former class. I wouldn't say that UIs "modify the truth value of a bridi". The bridi {la djan klama le zarci}, once we figure out who and what {la djan} and {le zarci} refer to, and the time we are talking about, has a truth value TRUE or FALSE. That truth value cannot be changed by using an attitudinal. What the attitudinal {.a'o} does in {.a'o la djan klama le zarci} is express the speaker's hope that the bridi is true. It shows that the speaker does not know the truth value of the bridi. It cannot change the truth value of the bridi. {.a'o} serves to remove the default assertive force of uttering {la djan klama le zarci}. If I utter {la djan klama le zarci} without any adornment, I will be assumed to be making a claim, I will be assumed to be asserting {la djan klama le zarci}. If I utter it with some adornment such as {.a'o}, {.ei}, {.e'o}, {xu} and many others then I remove the assertive force, I am no longer positing the bridi as true. But the truth value of the bridi, whatever it is, remains of course unaffected by my utterance. To make the assertive force explicit we can use {ju'a}. mu'o mi'e xorxes