From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 07 12:08:05 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FGiTV-0000ye-Hk for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:08:05 -0800 Received: from smtp.mail.umich.edu ([141.211.93.160] helo=skycaptain.mr.itd.umich.edu) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FGiTP-0000yG-Tu for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:08:05 -0800 Received: FROM gyruss.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (gyruss.gpcc.itd.umich.edu [141.211.2.213]) BY skycaptain.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 440DE81B.5A0B2.26890 ; 7 Mar 2006 15:07:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:07:55 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Joseph Martini X-X-Sender: alexjm@gyruss.gpcc.itd.umich.edu To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Confusion with Lojban For Beginners In-Reply-To: <200603071945.44840.jim-digitalkingdom.org-lojban@jimdabell.com> Message-ID: References: <200603071945.44840.jim-digitalkingdom.org-lojban@jimdabell.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3086 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: alexjm@umich.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Jim Dabell wrote: > [ clip ] > > Near the middle, it states that pritu means: > > x1 is to the right of x2, where x2 is facing x3 > > However, in the examples at the bottom, it translates: > > la .iulias. pritu la mari,as. la klaudias. > > ...as: > > Julia is to the right of Maria, facing Claudia. > > Which reads very much like it is Julia facing Claudia, not Maria. If > I understand the above definition of pritu correctly, the original > Lojban says that it is not Julia facing Claudia, but Maria. The root of this problem is that English doesn't mark who is facing Claudia. I have understood the lojban to mean that, when a particular observer is facing Claudia, Julia is to the right of Maria. Sort of as follows: Maria Julia Claudia (observer) I'm not sure that I'm specifically correct, but I hope that I'm at least clearer. Either way about it, I've used this definition in my past lojban and if it proves incorrect they will need an update. mu'omi'e .alex. > [ clip ]