From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 09 12:05:54 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FHROT-0007vJ-Vg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:05:54 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FHROQ-0007vA-45 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:05:53 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i27so492870wra for ; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:05:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=BMVbDTgwJbk9UQAnglOSEFG3v9zRkrbet/VfL8JeqKNF2bb522/VqcupmacgCIlZUC1P3X7OucRz76e+H6zRMuCAiXYwzkuhYyI1aj9UYfolKkY1O/ZnLffptGoOG8/gbA2q7Rovi9a6bW14NywvJrryj6OEykJ879PGXjNcNLg= Received: by 10.54.142.13 with SMTP id p13mr2669050wrd; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.69.3 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:05:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603091205n151e936v3e3189bde0e8263d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:05:48 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban-beginners Digest V5 #41 In-Reply-To: <200603091940.OAA29975@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <200603091940.OAA29975@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3092 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 3/9/06, der Mouse wrote: > > la .iulias. pritu la mari,as. la klaudias. > > > 3) Julia is to the right of Maria from Claudia's point of view. > > 5) If Maria (or better someone standing where she is) were to face > > Claudia, Julia would be on her (Maria's) right. > > > That leaves 3 and 5 as contenders, unfortunately, they often give > > opposite results. > > > The definition as stated suggests 5, but 3 is better, because 5 is > > ambiguous in situations where there is no up and down defined. > > If up and down are undefined, so are left and right. Yes, yes. I meant "externally undefined". Any person has an intrinsic up/down/front/back/left/right defined, so a person is always a perfectly good standard to use in x3 (as long as they are not in a strange posture, but let's say they are not). So option 3 is unambiguous. But option 5 requires an external up/down to be defined so that the hypothetical person that stands in x2 and faces x3 knows which way their head should point to. mu'o mi'e xorxes