From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 20 20:18:17 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FstEO-0002Cd-RH for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:16 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FstEM-0002CU-Bl for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:16 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id o25so33020nfa for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:16 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oBze/20HhrhDdSy+3lz+XM2bMRjY0WiVDQxSUfPTPQ7xh76eCxdvEfkkrietgeizpww6u3pHVm4a0+pO2Vm9hD5mVnGztWf0DqQ3iTtzNSbVb+HkDKhJhz2/LZfgikdPwSM7jkDzX6u+pbIZwgHLF5uTbjIfeXGgJO2+n9lE/iw= Received: by 10.49.49.6 with SMTP id b6mr125484nfk; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.92.1 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30606202018icace4e3we51242f47bb6ce02@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:18:15 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: mi'e rai'n In-Reply-To: <20060616220303.GC15955@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C85F0CF4E7BFF2-1B60-1262@MBLK-M30.sysops.aol.com> <20060616220303.GC15955@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 3285 X-Approved-By: pdf23ds@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/16/06, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > Well, it's very different from other languages, so if you don't > already have experience learning other languages you have to do both > the regular work involved in learning your second language (which is > hard) plus the work involved in twisting your brain around Lojban, > which is wierd. I'm not convinced that Lojban grammar is, in itself, really that hard to learn relative other languages. I mean, getting down pat the meanings of prepositions and heavily overloaded idioms and honorifics and formality levels in other languages sounds a lot more complicated than anything in Lojban. (What does "por" mean in Spanish? "ya"? I doubt definitions for those would be any less complications than definitions for {lo}/{le} or {tu'a}.) Now, it might be that because of the state of the community, the available learning materials, and the ways that people have to go about learning the language, that Lojban grammer *is* especially hard to learn. But this isn't due to the grammar itself, but only to the state of learning materials and lack of live classes and such. Also, many of the people on this list have been heavily involved in actually *defining* the language, and so they know much more about the innards than a student of the mature language will have to. This could skew one's perspective. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)