From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 05 07:38:07 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fy8Vy-0001Fl-Tg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:38:07 -0700 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.174]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1Fy8Vw-0001Fa-7Z for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:38:06 -0700 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j40so2105117ugd for ; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=BPiMgL3onofCyvnnmTBCwBU0IOghvtAvDuCKqm/fkZhSkmrF7yePGpwYhtbZ03DGbpzJ1rQzdkA4PxhGMHAvo82xEeIPGbFz5XdVtINvMD7f0xaHp/BPo+V2Vj0LfvL18ynGQykGeX3zp0scGvFNvlVzxZsNbToZ1UJ4g6772E8= Received: by 10.66.220.17 with SMTP id s17mr7877650ugg; Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.30.12 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 07:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:38:02 -0400 From: "Jonathan Gibbons" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: RK-like diagramming: Anyone interested? In-Reply-To: <44AB5FB7.2010609@hypermetrics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44AAC810.2070300@hypermetrics.com> <44AADE4C.3080601@hypermetrics.com> <200607042148.25751.phma@phma.optus.nu> <44AB5FB7.2010609@hypermetrics.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-archive-position: 3338 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jonored@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners > A map, that's an interesting way of putting it. > > By any chance were you ever a Pascal programmer? To me, the > "railroad" notation was the simplest, clearest description > of language syntax I ever saw. Examples in the classic Wirth > books and so on. An interesting setup; I'd rather have more of a place for labelling the nonterminals (in that form, they seem to mostly be either separate tables, or just contiguous sets of lines.), as they do carry meaning; they show semantic groupings as well as syntactic ones, rather than just being a step in determining if a sentence is valid or not. > The real status of that grammar is something interesting to me, but > I'm not a "real" grammar/parser guy. > > Refer to Robin Powell's page: > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/ > > I don't know how up-to-date it is -- I assume this stuff doesn't > change as fast as we'd like. That whole section of debate confuses me greatly; mostly because I do not see the problem at all. Most of the problems seem to go away when you impose a priority on the rules, which all of the parsers I have encountered do, certainly all the generalised LR parsers. It'd certainly be less important if Lojban were LALR-parsable, but it doesn't seem to me like it ought to be a big deal... Although there is the example of > "le nu broda ku brode" and "le nu broda kei brode" are grammatical, > but "le nu broda brode", eliding both terminators, is not. from the discussion, that leads me to ask; is a statement that consists of just a sumti, with no selbri, grammatical or ungrammatical? as that's what I would see leading to the second being ungrammatical - I had already expressed what happens when there is no terminator in terms of priorties.