From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jul 23 12:18:49 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G4jTV-0007zD-IW for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:18:49 -0700 Received: from web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([216.252.111.85]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G4jTU-0007z6-Av for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:18:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 28871 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jul 2006 19:18:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NDCuiOH0/yY+BPVOBvo2a5kNB0SaOGZfeuxOlCCESmUrCvRU4sN/EHekqDqYk/ySImH+FDly9aN3FCv/4tuwlbsWs4kXh6bQDSHqFQwWDpSJy+dIf+DLWxFeviyxCzJnRs8JvhWCx7Inunpu7WS946J4X18/2zyRkIRuaoj7hoM= ; Message-ID: <20060723191846.28869.qmail@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Received: from [75.2.73.201] by web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:18:46 PDT Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:18:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathaniel Krause Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: making a cmene To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <3e3b81fd0607210925u668f321du137f08183833b107@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1874087100-1153682326=:28475" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 3448 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nathanielkrause@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-1874087100-1153682326=:28475 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I could be wrong, but I think that was this passage from CLL means is that the comma is used instead of a vowel glide or non-Lojbanic sound. That is, you could use a comma when the sound is one syllable in the native language, but it would still be two syllables in Lojban. So, you could spell 广州 as {guanjo,us} but that would be three syllables. I think that {guanjos} would be closer to the original Mandarin pronunciation. Maybe {guanzaus} would be better to reflect the local pronunciation, though. -Nat Krause Earth Engine wrote: Thanks. I think that {o,u} can be say as one syllables according to The Complete Lojban Language: 3.3) .i,iai,ii,iai,ion. which is technically a different Lojban name. Since the intent with Lojbanized names is to allow them to be pronounced more like their native counterparts, the comma is allowed to represent vowel glides or some non-Lojbanic sound. On 7/15/06, Pierre Abbat < phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:On Saturday 15 July 2006 05:10, Earth Engine wrote: > Shanghai -> canhais. > Guangzhou -> guandjo,us. > > Is these cneme correct? Neither is a well-formed word. {'} (occasionally written "h") does not occur next to a consonant, and {ndj} is a forbidden triple. I'd say {canxais}; for Guangzhou you could either insert a pause, {guan.djo,us}, or drop the {d}. Not sure whether to drop the {u}, as {ou} is two syllables in Lojban but only one in Chinese. phma -- �� �� Ȼ �� �� �� Ȼ ȴ �� �� Ȼ �� �� �� �� �� Ȼ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --0-1874087100-1153682326=:28475 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I could be wrong, but I think that was this passage from CLL means is that the comma is used instead of a vowel glide or non-Lojbanic sound. That is, you could use a comma when the sound is one syllable in the native language, but it would still be two syllables in Lojban.

So, you could spell 广州 as {guanjo,us} but that would be three syllables. I think that {guanjos} would be closer to the original Mandarin pronunciation. Maybe {guanzaus} would be better to reflect the local pronunciation, though.

-Nat Krause

Earth Engine <earthengine@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks. I think that {o,u} can be say as one syllables according to The Complete Lojban Language:
3.3)

  .i,iai,ii,iai,ion.
which is technically a different Lojban name. Since the intent with Lojbanized names is to allow them to be pronounced more like their native counterparts, the comma is allowed to represent vowel glides or some non-Lojbanic sound.

On 7/15/06, Pierre Abbat < phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Saturday 15 July 2006 05:10, Earth Engine wrote:
> Shanghai -> canhais.
> Guangzhou -> guandjo,us.
>
> Is these cneme correct?

Neither is a well-formed word. {'} (occasionally written "h") does not occur
next to a consonant, and {ndj} is a forbidden triple. I'd say {canxais}; for
Guangzhou you could either insert a pause, {guan.djo,us}, or drop the {d}.
Not sure whether to drop the {u}, as {ou} is two syllables in Lojban but only
one in Chinese.

phma






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