From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Aug 06 11:06:42 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G9n1N-0008M5-Qj for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:06:41 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G9n1M-0008Ly-K7 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:06:41 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a27so599602nfc for ; Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:06:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RMhcYLYGXlgSFuArTlG87C8nuxQ3Fow+3im7qNeuNYF13ynwUqK6Jjro+qSuKDFhTK+LhHk4X0oZsgsXS3zs1tLiaJVZLIw71xqpsOaBOEESKTopZ2rJaFdrjhzhjfJddlRXSVsiCy/4BT9ZHQU1wv4UreFyMfpxizMGJoH5SIU= Received: by 10.78.107.8 with SMTP id f8mr2163313huc; Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.159.4 with HTTP; Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 14:06:38 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: i don't know what to do In-Reply-To: <44D629D1.3010506@perpetuum-immobile.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <44D629D1.3010506@perpetuum-immobile.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3479 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners You could say "I don't know something which I should bring about." {mi na djuno da poi mi bilga gasnu} Unfortunately the x2 place of {djuno} has to be a {du'u} (the fact that) statement, which disallows that statement. So I think I have to do this: {mi na djuno du'u mi bilga gasnu} That means "I don't know the fact that I have to bring about something." Which is wrong. {mi na djuno du'u la'e mi bilga gasnu ma} "I don't know the fact that: the referent of: I have to bring about what?" I will leave it to better Lojbanists than I, to tell me whether that's even coherent. {djuno}'s x2 {du'u} frustrates me. I have heard a truly vast number of instances in which lojbanists attempt to use {djuno} which are not in any way {du'u}. It often involves training rather than a fact. This seems to me to be a deficit in the existing vocabulary. -epkat On 8/6/06, Timo Paulssen wrote: > well, the subject isnt my problem, but translating it... > > a few days (weeks?) ago i asked this question on the lojban irc channel > and i was not quite satisfied with what i got... > > my idea was something like this: > > .i mi na djuno da poi mi gasnu ke'o .ei > > i forgot what the second method was, but it included using ma and then > adding kau to it... > > mu'omi'e timos > > > >