From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 17 09:53:09 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDl7F-0004fK-KZ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:09 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDl7D-0004eg-Ls for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:09 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so1141613nfc for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Gp5maiEE88ofZvYIDeno4AFpvwygS0oS8U/TgnTRDbJ8sAjeQjTifB4EcO3SWxu/XtaAeYwVr/XaxY+bBBauzhbcf107RlPhTOHMdEYiiL1Z3Iv6oihQk0PO9uXq0vDysf53KRKG3TRB0TOQerfLO2prB8KUVcElRW5vqTjLcXE= Received: by 10.49.43.2 with SMTP id v2mr2608737nfj; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.92.8 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30608170953p6bcfdbcjd3a760a9b7914bcb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:53:05 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ti/ta/tu, zo'e, da In-Reply-To: <925d17560608170914g10720851w26239dd0001bdf6d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <44E48545.9090001@freenet.de> <737b61f30608170837o57edbca7gd03473dfbcc15cd2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560608170914g10720851w26239dd0001bdf6d@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3520 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/17/06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 8/17/06, Chris Capel wrote: > > > Use "ki". > > > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=188&page=The+Lojban+Reference+Grammar#s13 > > > > .i lo munje puzuki citno .i ro cmana cazu crino > > {ro cmana cabu'u crino} right? You have already fixed the > reference place with {ki}, so a new {zu} will take you away from > there. >From reading the section I linked to, I think bu'u is rundant. "ca" by itself would work as well, but would might imply a close proximity of the two events, which I was trying to avoid by saying they're only relatively proximate: something like "at the same time, which in the context of these long time periods could be anywhere in a long time period", or in other words, "in the same long time period". "caza" would perhaps be better. When you say "take you away from there" you mean "away from the reference point", right? Or (I doubt) do you mean that it will somehow unfix the reference? BTW, once a tense is stuck with "ki", how do you unstick it completely? CLL isn't clear on the point. If you unstick it by saying "pu ki ku broda .i ca ki ku brode", is the second "ca" interpreted relative the first, or relative the null tense? Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)