From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 17 11:24:41 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDmXp-0007Mz-8J for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:41 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GDmXk-0007Mr-0D for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:41 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so1170899nfc for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mrfmMw/xx6z8zN0/8bAnUVN9g1Q+DbkcGtKebxbeG9hPsurAfuDn1HZre7ZbUQ02iXIZpvWSq1L8nbUYeCf+C6JdgKjh5rm0xd3ubs06pUeEktBAANlVQY5iI8xd2IDeytdbkOJAxd9uohU9Cis5VRkRdWpAWO599M1x9ijm9hs= Received: by 10.49.93.13 with SMTP id v13mr2771537nfl; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.92.8 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30608171124r375df6a9m996ddd220224c3d2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:24:34 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: ti/ta/tu, zo'e, da In-Reply-To: <925d17560608171102v495b7e02ueff57256af1a4de9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <44E48545.9090001@freenet.de> <737b61f30608170837o57edbca7gd03473dfbcc15cd2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560608170914g10720851w26239dd0001bdf6d@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30608170953p6bcfdbcjd3a760a9b7914bcb@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560608171102v495b7e02ueff57256af1a4de9@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3523 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/17/06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 8/17/06, Chris Capel wrote: > > On 8/17/06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > On 8/17/06, Chris Capel wrote: > > > > > > > > .i lo munje puzuki citno .i ro cmana cazu crino > > > > > > {ro cmana cabu'u crino} right? You have already fixed the > > > reference place with {ki}, so a new {zu} will take you away from > > > there. > > > > "ca" by > > itself would work as well, but would might imply a close proximity of > > the two events, which I was trying to avoid by saying they're only > > relatively proximate: something like "at the same time, which in the > > context of these long time periods could be anywhere in a long time > > period", or in other words, "in the same long time period". "caza" > > would perhaps be better. > > {ca} only indicates simultaneity, it does not say anything about the > duration of the two events. In this case the two events (the two states) > would seem to be simultaneous. > > {za} indicates that the two events are separated by some (medium) > length of time. I was trying to use "cazu" or "caza" to mean "simultaneous to within X time period", where X is za or zu. For instance, in certain context things are only simultaneous if they happen within a few nanoseconds of each other. In other contexts, that can be seconds, hours, years, or eons. Does "caza" not work for indicating that scope? I realize that "ca" by itself allows that leeway in simultaneity, but is there a way to make it explicit? > Relative to the first. {nau ki} is absolute and brings you to the here > and now.. > > I don't think you can unstick the reference without sticking it somewhere > else. {ki nai} should be grammatical but isn't. ki'e Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)