From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Aug 19 13:04:20 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GEX3M-0007jK-E5 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:20 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GEX3L-0007jC-E4 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:20 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so1842122nfc for ; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SCZV3Tc01Eb/XH8tJrEFcnqFQo1qzbEoXHNvLhFsGQkCDaR/tGc8q7M9A3v3DCBEontKo5XivaMzPsi05b0VV3vwCnv8xZ8SBEf/76EjtJOyk0tEyJLuTsY6DIda9+NOylGzYKQ++iYPdasdgyTM8cAHRovoCZUDPRLO350Yx4I= Received: by 10.48.230.18 with SMTP id c18mr5623169nfh; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.57.4 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f30608191304v548483edp81c7590cba2e966d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:04:17 -0500 From: "Chris Capel" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: legal consonant pairs and permissible initial consonant pairs In-Reply-To: <20060819191921.84555.qmail@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060819191921.84555.qmail@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3531 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/19/06, c k wrote: > > coi rodo, > .au .uanaibu'onai > > CLL: "There are just 48 such permissible initial consonant pairs, as > follows: bl br cf ck cl cm cn cp cr ct dj dr dz fl fr gl gr jb jd jg jm jv > kl kr ml mr pl pr sf sk sl sm sn sp sr st tc tr ts vl vr xl xr zb zd zg zm > zv" > > Firstly, I don't see {rs} listed as one of the 48 permissible initial > consonant pairs although there are gismu like {jursa} and {darsi} etc. Also > there are lujvo in the lujvo list which also use {rs} as an initial > consonant pair: {jaurselylu'i}, {jirsezlu'i}, {ki'orsamsrorau}, {varsenta}. "Initial consonant pair" means, most of the time, that it only applies to the beginning of gismu or lujvo. The consonant pair in a CVC/CV gismu is not an initial pair, and has a much wider variety of possible combinations. (CC is an initial consonant pair, and C/C is a permissible consonant pair. Gismu are CCVCV, CVC/CV.) > Second, for a potential lujvo (one I created) such as {varsetvro} for > "airlock", the triple of {tvr} seems permissible because it is not one of > the four excluded triples and because {vr} is a permissible initial pair. Nope, consonant triples have to be CC/C, which means that {tv} would have to be an initial pair, which it isn't. You seem to be thinking that triples are C/CC. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)