From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Aug 19 19:04:06 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GEcfW-0007pN-5X for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:04:06 -0700 Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GEcfS-0007pB-Mx for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Aug 2006 19:04:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5037FEBC62 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:39:27 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70828-03 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:39:25 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mail.211.ru (mail [10.5.1.2]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FA0EBC52 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:39:25 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (host-102-2-129.211.ru [10.102.2.129]) by mail.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16A7B5C1C for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:03:56 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:03:54 +0700 From: Yanis Batura X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <87718410.20060820090354@mail.ru> To: c k Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: legal consonant pairs and permissible initial consonant pairs In-Reply-To: <20060819191921.84555.qmail@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060819191921.84555.qmail@web37902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------89FDE423F8FA20" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 3532 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------------89FDE423F8FA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 20.08.2006, 2:19, c k wrote: > Second, for a potential lujvo (one I created) such as {varsetvro} > for "airlock", the triple of {tvr} seems permissible because it is > not one of the four excluded triples and because {vr} is a > permissible initial pair. But jbofi'e will not accept {varsetvro} > although it will accpet {varsetyvro} for some reason. Notice it also > accepts the initial consonant pair {rs} as well. So if {varsetvro} > it not a valid lujvo, why not? The CLL 3:6 says: Pairs of consonants can also appear freely, with the following restrictions: ... 2) It is forbidden for one consonant to be voiced and the other unvoiced. {t} is unvoiced, and {v} is voiced, hence, *{varsetvro} is not permitted in Lojban. *{tv} must be diluted with {y}: {varsetyvro}. That is also the reason why Russians can't have the most direct transcription of their capital to Lojban: *{moskvas.} is prohibited because of *{kv}. {moskov.} or {moskuas.} were suggested, {moskyvas}. is also acceptable. mi'e .ianis. --------------------- Lojban: A Language With *Intelligent* Design ------------89FDE423F8FA20 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 20.08.2006, 2:19, c k wrote:


> Second, for a potential lujvo (one I created) such as {varsetvro}

> for "airlock", the triple of {tvr} seems permissible because it is

> not one of the four excluded triples and because {vr} is a

> permissible initial pair.  But jbofi'e will not accept {varsetvro}

> although it will accpet {varsetyvro} for some reason. Notice it also

> accepts the initial consonant pair {rs} as well.  So if {varsetvro}

> it not a valid lujvo, why  not?


The CLL 3:6 says:

Pairs of consonants can also appear freely, with the following restrictions:

...

2) It is forbidden for one consonant to be voiced and the other unvoiced.



{t} is unvoiced, and {v} is voiced, hence, *{varsetvro} is not permitted in Lojban.

*{tv} must be diluted with {y}: {varsetyvro}.


That is also the reason why Russians can't have the most direct transcription of their capital to Lojban: *{moskvas.} is prohibited because of *{kv}. {moskov.} or {moskuas.} were suggested, {moskyvas}. is also acceptable.



mi'e .ianis.


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Lojban: A Language With *Intelligent* Design

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