From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 04 13:54:02 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GKLSE-0004k5-Ot for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:54:02 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.176]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GKLSD-0004jw-Up for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:54:02 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id i49so2172793pyi for ; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aUIa7ywlZCFvgzfPC02RMxaBGmI+CfIFCuSCjcgNSS4KDgKHwx9NTRNeo20N4bbiJQxu+aJiJnTkEd9xRVyMXk9MjjvC+YZxfRfNkIq5M2Mdc2/czAo3SzkzQEXZY1mz/YqJMRTUIyj+SOwdLTQcL/erXImJ9toqDgBXa3iclKQ= Received: by 10.35.96.11 with SMTP id y11mr10913834pyl; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.22.14 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560609041354h45ca2813s4e6dcb7fbb4609e3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 17:54:00 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Stress. In-Reply-To: <200609041618.46465.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060902164155.51784.qmail@web51509.mail.yahoo.com> <20060903224233.GI29824@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d17560609040603nbf52a5eh5cc7da7732474136@mail.gmail.com> <200609041618.46465.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3567 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 9/4/06, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Monday 04 September 2006 09:03, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > cmevla can be stressed anywhere or nowhere, it makes no difference. > > It makes no difference to the lexing of the word, but can make a difference in > the meaning (though the same cmevla, with the same stress, can refer to > different things, e.g. {UAcintyn}). There seem to be two different opinions on this matter. For me, {UAcintyn} and {uaCINtyn} are the exact same cmevla, they represent two allowed pronunciations of the same word, much like {kla,ma} and {kl,a,ma} represent two allowed pronunciations of the same word, in free variation. The different spellings indicate a preference for one pronunciation, but pronouncing the word either way is perfectly valid. Others sometimes seem to think that stress in cmevla can make a semantic difference. Sometimes people seem to think that even syllabification in cmevla can make a semantic difference. > If no stress is written in a cmevla, it's > pronounced with a default stress, but some sound sequences can occur in > cmevla that can't occur in brivla: > Syllable contains "y" and another vowel: {uiliymsyn} > Two adjacent syllables contain "y": {stydmyfin} > Last syllable contains "y": {uacintyn} > How is the default stress determined in these cases? As far as I'm concerned, in whichever way you prefer, since for me stress doesn't make any difference in cmevla. For those who think stress does make a semantic difference, some rule would be required, so that those forms are not semantically ambiguous. mu'o mi'e xorxes