From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 06 14:46:21 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GL5Dx-0006B8-6P for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:46:21 -0700 Received: from web56402.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([216.252.111.81]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GL5Dv-0006B1-SQ for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:46:21 -0700 Received: (qmail 72976 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2006 21:46:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PgUFS+C6cncLvexqDoIKPPHuS/BZl3cBpw4dwlVOuaABSmrC0gOGMiHrdBMIklTHxECVGzIOVQiCU3AFgKi9hC7/2S9FPdc1yYApowSKcqmhtGvQsliIVkncNvFBUYasmD7SuTVlxX4ToPvIcnQjkJsLrxxYDNOxf0UZ52PdEcE= ; Message-ID: <20060906214618.72974.qmail@web56402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Received: from [75.0.157.227] by web56402.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:46:18 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:46:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathaniel Krause Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Stress. To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <925d17560609060557g5e67575dgad35897468aac93@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-894041470-1157579178=:70864" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-archive-position: 3572 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nathanielkrause@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-894041470-1157579178=:70864 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jorge Llamb�as wrote: On 9/5/06, Nathaniel Krause wrote: > Given that a cmevla doesn't have a meaning which is defined by the language, > I'm not sure what it means to say that two cmevla which are pronounced > differently are exactly the same word. It means that wherever you place the stress you will not be mispronouncing it, just as you will not be mispronouncing it if you insert a permissible buffer vowel between consonants, or if you pronounce l/m/n/r syllabically, or if you use a different rhotic for /r/ than someone else uses, etc. They are all valid pronunciations of the same word. Perhaps one pronunciation is the most common one, but all the others are also allowed. I see what you mean. However, the difference, I'd say, is that Lojban has already established stress as an important part of its phonetics. This is not so true of syllabification, except where it affects stres, and it's certaily not true of the quality of one's /r/. -sen --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --0-894041470-1157579178=:70864 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jorge Llamb�as <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/5/06, Nathaniel Krause wrote:
> Given that a cmevla doesn't have a meaning which is defined by the language,
> I'm not sure what it means to say that two cmevla which are pronounced
> differently are exactly the same word.

It means that wherever you place the stress you will not be mispronouncing
it, just as you will not be mispronouncing it if you insert a
permissible buffer
vowel between consonants, or if you pronounce l/m/n/r syllabically, or if you
use a different rhotic for /r/ than someone else uses, etc. They are all valid
pronunciations of the same word. Perhaps one pronunciation is the most
common one, but all the others are also allowed.


I see what you mean. However, the difference, I'd say, is that Lojban has already established stress as an important part of its phonetics. This is not so true of syllabification, except where it affects stres, and it's certaily not true of the quality of one's /r/.

-sen

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --0-894041470-1157579178=:70864--