From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 12 02:44:21 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GXx6a-000450-S9 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:43:59 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.176]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GXx5h-00041r-GT for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:43:35 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id w49so596640pyg for ; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:42:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FzJYcESQ6eto8K0+UJN8Cz9qmaP7W02L74nWielb275G/X3UVDicKyREGOh4k8869Hvm2uBuJaTPO2x7z5/lgTY+H10rCzSQOrnnsnTjbi/xq3Bw2G9kcCMWQhLxyPhP4PMAFRBGqCW/hTmAT5PYcdQQYjazBMR2lxoFIuYv9Gc= Received: by 10.64.193.8 with SMTP id q8mr2439765qbf; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.179.9 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <537d06d00610120242g714cea4et4d7dbb72a630109@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:42:26 +0200 From: "Philip Newton" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: problem In-Reply-To: <9ea0266d0610120211gd3e5557p8dd2970b19f39571@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <9ea0266d0610120211gd3e5557p8dd2970b19f39571@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 3614 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: philip.newton@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 10/12/06, UrchinStar47 wrote: > What is the real difference betwean ' and x in Lojban? It's like the difference between {c} and {b} -- they're two separate phonemes. {li'o} "[omitted text]" is something different from {lixo} "how many?". Phone_t_ically, {x} is, AFAIK, [x] (the voiceless velar fricative), while {'} is some fricative that can't be confused with any other fricative -- popular choices include [T] (voiceless dental fricative) and [h] (voiceless glottal fricative). My impression is that [h] is the more popular of the two, so in pronunciation, {'} is to {x} in Lojban as {h} is to {hx} in Esperanto. (Where the difference is phonemic, too: horo "hour" vs hxoro "choir".) mu'o mi'e .filip.