From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 29 04:48:15 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpOrB-0007FU-5q for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:48:10 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpOqY-0007FC-3B for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:48:01 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c31so4441421nfb for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:47:26 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FmT3kYpzVfFifPCJnggVxsq8XGvMftU6wNDwiKAd42GnmMvE++vm+pEpnwrRq19fUm+Nl+8Mi8QJMbSZwyRsJ9rQwxs/6/IYCdd6p9LgptdKDK/Q+TQgsmeT6JvD1Zr1yGPwpWKeN8qbmZox9r7geJLNV55CfzemkwYOYR48Ip4= Received: by 10.82.153.5 with SMTP id a5mr396380bue.1164804446365; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.115.20 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 04:47:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560611290447s4e77d6fbxace5abaacb8e0318@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:47:26 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A few questions about chapters 18 and 19 In-Reply-To: <456F28CC@webmail.bcpl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <456F28CC@webmail.bcpl.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 3720 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 11/29/06, turnip wrote: > FINALLY finished the Lojban Reference Grammar! (Yes, there was a long hiatus > there). Anyway, a few questions. In Chapter 18: > 8.13) ro ratcu ka'e citka da'a ratcu > all rats can eat all-but-one rats. > All rats can eat all other rats. > Does this imply that each rat can eat EVERY RAT but one? That's a lot of rats > for one rat to eat. Or is it ambiguous if it means some subset of all-but-one > rats? How would one disambiguate the two cases, if the ambiguity is there as > written? It means that for each rat x, all but one rat are such that x can eat it. The one rat that x cannot eat being presumably x itself, although this is not stated. It doesn't really say whether this situation still holds after the rat has already eaten a few. Initially, for each rat, all but one rat are potential dinner. Obviously once x has eaten y, y can no longer eat any rat, so the sentence will stop being true right after the first eating anyway. > In Chapter 19, with "si": Can I assume that a cmavo cluster requires a "si" > for each of the component cmavo to completely erase, like: najenai si si si ? Yes, each cmavo is always a separate word, even if written together. (They don't have to be written together either, that's optional.) > 9.5) la tcarlis. cusku lo'u le ninmu cu morsi le'u > .iku'i ri jmive > Charlie says [quote] le ninmu cu morsi [unquote]. > However, the-last-mentioned is-alive. > Charlie says ``le ninmu cu morsi'', but he is alive. > > Why doesn't "ri" refer back to "lo'u le ninmu cu morsi le'u", i.e. asserting > that the utterance is alive? Isn't that the most recent sumti? Probably. It has never been very clear to me which sumti are skipped by {ri} and which are not. mu'o mi'e xorxes