From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Nov 30 13:02:35 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gpt2k-0006L2-7z for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:02:13 -0800 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gpt1s-0006Gl-Iu for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:01:48 -0800 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so4014734wxd for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:01:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=INpaWmSJVT8VVKOHVOODCP40g31kVntooZel3kenp78l51mKIGHa9kxeFgOLPT0hkcGyv+3bnZQatccGjl6uzk/uWYzVz/cCZmDG28BWtC0BTkMVoHVe6tmsgk5nefmdSg6a6Vv319vXVF0MJ7hJws8ZF3eHSAeBB2us6G7LBIA= Received: by 10.90.52.2 with SMTP id z2mr4211591agz.1164920470934; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.104.9 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 17:01:10 -0400 From: Betsemes To: lojban-beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] A learning idea..... and my own attempt to do it. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3723 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: betsemes@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Around two weeks ago, I got my eighth sponsored child; a filipino little girl who lives on Manila city. I practically never before had sponsored a child who doesn't speak my native language, Spanish, so when I was reading her personal facts, it attracted my attention that she only speaks Filipino. After some inquiries, I knew that filipinos learn to talk in English very well, so it will not be necessary to worry about it at all. Yet, I thought it would be really nice to be able to write to her in her own native language, so I bought an audio course on Tagalog. What immediately I notice is the easiness of learning something if it is already recorded, specially if the player is a highly portable one which I can bring with me everywhere and listen to it even when I'm walking at the mall or driving my car. I extracted all of the CD tracks and stored it in a small MP3 player which I can take everywhere and listen to it almost anytime. I thought just how much easier and faster would learning Lojban be whether we would have an audio course. Of course, I know about the project that Yanis have proposed to make, but it is in it's bare beginnings if any. So I was thinking on this and I got an idea that might work better than whatever I have being doing to learn Lojban up until now (task that I have been doing inconsistently), and I considered it worth sharing. 1) Write an English sentence. It could be almost anything; everyday conversation lines, book sentences, or any sentence that you could come up with both original or copied. 2) Do any possible effort to translate it. 3) Post your translation either on the Lojban list or the Lojban beginners list and ask for comments and corrections. 4) Actively correct your translation as you get comments from the list members. Post your new corrected translation. You might need to correct and post repeatedly until the translation is totally correct. You might want to know the way to pronounce it, so you might want use your MP3 Player/recorder or your PC to record some words, post the audio file and ask whether or not the pronunciation is correct. 5) Once you are satisfied with the translation and know precisely how to pronounce it, then read it repeatedly, both silently and aloud until you feel confortable reading it. 6) Record it using your MP3 player/recorder or your computer. If recorded with a computer then store it in your digital audio player. 7) Play and replay it many times, over and over and over again. Reread the emails and/or word definitions related to your sentence until you know the full meaning of your sentence by heart. 8) Write a new English sentence and repeat the while process. I think it would be more effective if your new sentence is related to your previous one. Well, that's about the whole of my idea. What do you think? It might be flawed in many ways, but it seems to me that I would learn Lojban much faster by using this procedure than by using any other method including flash cards. At least I'm willing to try it out. So then where should I begin? I think anything is good rather than nothing, so I'll begin translating this very email. So my first sentence was: "Around two weeks ago, I got my eighth sponsored child; a filipino little girl who lives on Manila city." lojban translation: zi lo jeftu be li re mi [pu] co'a pidversra lo mi bimoi be lo'i verba be'o ne lo se natmrfilipino ke cmalu. nixli poi xabju lo tcadu pe me'e la'o py. Manila .py. pidversra: x1=s1 helps/donates to/supports poor child x2=s2=v1=p1 by means x3=s4, child is of age x4=v2 and lacking in possessions/properties x5=p2 co'a ZAhO initiative moi x1 is the (n)th member of set x2 when ordered by rule x3 xabju x1 dwells/lives/resides/abides at/inhabits/is a resident of location/habitat/nest/home/abode x2 x1 is a town/city of metropolitan area x2, in political unit x3, serving hinterland/region x4 jeftu x1 is x2 weeks in duration (default is 1 week) by standard x3 natmi x1 is a nation/ethnic group of peoples x2; [people sharing a history/culture] So there is no type 4 fu'ivla for "Filipino". I think there should be one. I also wrote each pause explicitly, please, tell me whether they are OK and whether there should be another one. I think the "pu" is not necesary from the Lojban standpoint, but I inserted it on brackets to state where I think it should be. Please, advise.