From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 01 05:48:13 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gq8kO-0000pN-4E for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:48:12 -0800 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.237]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gq8k5-0000nq-Sa for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:48:11 -0800 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so963872wra for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:47:53 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=F9ZGfkDoVO96h/962uzvy8v3az+13HSnZL+dfAjzYoe2S9mqxi3WnAX5gRNCYdBh/612GH7F5xMUN9Lwun/d1G/yZ8kuYrMF8DtI8Wdi6FIsbOFZGkTKCLjStNouncj5SVLzj028NSZ8CnY+AaMkuieEIcg1HuRMTGx0OnIzizs= Received: by 10.90.105.19 with SMTP id d19mr5053106agc.1164980872571; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 05:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.104.9 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 05:47:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:47:52 -0400 From: Betsemes To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A learning idea..... and my own attempt to do it. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3731 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: betsemes@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 11/30/06, Matt Arnold wrote: > Why not do the first steps using jboselkei? Did you know that > jboselkei upgraded yesterday? It looks great and has some improvements > to the user interface. > > http://www.teddyb.org/jsk/ Sorry, Matt, but jboselkei is unreliable as a learning tool as I see it, and I'll tell you why. It's a game rather than a learning tool as it is currently designed, and as such it forces both novices and experienced lojbanists to review translations. This means that both right and wrong reviews will get mixed up without any means to comment and/or challenge the reviews. Anyone should have the opportunity to post comments on any review and the translator should have the option to challenge the review while explaining why is he/she doing the challenging. Since jboselkei in it's current form does not provide for this, then it mixes up right and wrong reviews indiscriminately, making it an unreliable source of learning material. > What if the next upgrade to Jboselkei allowed the user to upload an > mp3 file of the Lojban translation? That would be an excellent idea, but an audio file should also be reviewed/commented on so the problem given above does not get repeated on the audio files. Badly pronounced audio files could be mixed up with good ones. I began some time ago to use jboselkei thinking that it could be a good learning tool. I was disappointed with it, so I stopped using it. Right then, it was said at the list that such way of posting comments on reviews should be a feature to be added on a future upgrade. Since I regarded such an implementation to be top priority over anything else, I went eagerly to see what changes were made. Boy, I was so disappointed. The looks and feel of the game seemed to be top priority rather than improving it's usefulness as a learning tool. As of now, the list is the most realiable way to do what I suggested on my first post on this subject.