From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Dec 05 15:47:00 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Grjzz-0008KM-PY for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:46:58 -0800 Received: from web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([216.252.111.85]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Grjzk-0008K5-HE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:46:52 -0800 Received: (qmail 83386 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Dec 2006 23:46:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=mrLIa6UgUGJp8joBtGFNJ2fHT+8+MVW+5X5bo6QlIvtHC7L6x9nChcFjycqnJnpI0rfNOLlvgrodf2jVzahU2kM08uKQfyZiGj3uRTpfeYmzbTgWMepWMNSinm8k7b34piP5qe+HpYT/TeWhgQGcFH0vnj5V6TmHllr+DD08w2I=; X-YMail-OSG: AW0wIV4VM1nnrIdFKFKqpb5mcVuphBVw7NvXDhCU Received: from [75.0.147.161] by web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 15:46:39 PST Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 15:46:39 -0800 (PST) From: Nathaniel Krause Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Pronouncing "a" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <98574029.20061205071216@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1046665410-1165362399=:83383" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <424616.83383.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-archive-position: 3809 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nathanielkrause@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-1046665410-1165362399=:83383 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yanis Batura wrote: On 05.12.2006, 6:49, Pierre Abbat wrote: > I'm not sure about "hat", or Glaswegian, but I know an Englishman, and > he pronounces as "a" in "father" a lot of a's I pronounce as "a" in "ash". Strange that you all speak about phonemes by providing examples how words are read in different dialects of English. Why not use IPA or at least voice recording? There were already links to voice-recordings provided in earlier responses (and the links also contained IPA notes), so, if that was sufficient, than they are sufficient. However, most English speakers are not familiar with IPA, and some people have trouble playing .ogg files, so I was trying to elucidate for the benefit of readers who might still be unclear. doi piEr, a lot of English English accents are affected by what's called the "trap-bath" split, in which the [æ] sounds in many monosyllabic words become [ɑː] (on a somewhat random basis; some words are unaffected). However, so far as I'm aware, this doesn't relate to Scottish accents at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_English implies that Scottish English had these sounds as [a] all along. mi'e .sen. --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --0-1046665410-1165362399=:83383 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yanis Batura <ybatura@mail.ru> wrote:
On 05.12.2006, 6:49, Pierre Abbat wrote:

> I'm not sure about "hat", or Glaswegian, but I know an Englishman, and
> he pronounces as "a" in "father" a lot of a's I pronounce as "a" in "ash".

Strange that you all speak about phonemes by providing examples how
words are read in different dialects of English. Why not use IPA or at
least voice recording?
There were already links to voice-recordings provided in earlier responses (and the links also contained IPA notes), so, if that was sufficient, than they are sufficient. However, most English speakers are not familiar with IPA, and some people have trouble playing .ogg files, so I was trying to elucidate for the benefit of readers who might still be unclear.

doi piEr, a lot of English English accents are affected by what's called the "trap-bath" split, in which the [æ] sounds in many monosyllabic words become [ɑː] (on a somewhat random basis; some words are unaffected). However, so far as I'm aware, this doesn't relate to Scottish accents at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_English implies that Scottish English had these sounds as [a] all along.

mi'e .sen.

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