From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Dec 30 11:02:27 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H0jTN-0000o3-W6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:02:27 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H0jTG-0000k0-FR for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:02:25 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c31so9734939nfb for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:02:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QV+OueK9gAsnbFnucDW3rneeZJD8BO9iqUsw239vrOdXCAPoriKOxRxlvrWnnZVQTkcRUyM4PCo8tuKUpZjrsVabjLVWTboPzFSXT1fX/btsbcWtlyxrG7vl8aWVB6DsW3SRKAjcfE1bNRVtufLh3GUrPU8rOwVQhZnudcv6sGI= Received: by 10.82.120.15 with SMTP id s15mr1641577buc.1167504935161; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 10:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.116.6 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 10:55:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560612301055o1e3e4ee7wbaee1d434d085559@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:55:35 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: staying aloft In-Reply-To: <873436C5-5C40-4634-BEE3-E58BC6007097@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <873436C5-5C40-4634-BEE3-E58BC6007097@mindspring.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 3863 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 12/30/06, Cortesi wrote: > > > > {ze'a ma} means "for how long?", so: > > ze'a ma ma'a vofli > > ga'inai, but my innocent reading of the cmavo list did > not lead me to think so: The cmavo list is not the best place to figure out how to use a cmavo, the definitions are usually too condensed. At best it can serve as a reminder. For tenses as sumti tcita see CLL, chapter 10, section 12: > This novice supposed {ze'ama} would mean > "medium time interval when?" > with a response of a tense cmavo. It would be "medium time interval what?", although I'd say "neutral", or better nothing, rather than "medium". > Except that, I gather, ma always requests a sumti, > not a tense, in response. Right. > If as you say {ze'a ma} is valid, I don't get how > the general idea of fill-in-this-blank questions > works in that case. How would I stick a response > sumti into a tense? > > ze'a ma ma'a vofli > ze'a pano se mentu ma'a vofli > [medium-duration 10-minutes we-all fly] Better: ze'a lo mentu be li pano ma'a vofli "A ten minute period", rather than "ten (one) minute periods". > Doesn't that say something like ten-minutes are > flying using propulsion we-all? No, only untagged sumti fill the numbered slots of the selbri. Tagged sumti can go in any order: ze'a lo mentu be li cino ma'a vofli = ma'a ze'a lo mentu be li pano cu vofli = ma'a vofli ze'a lo mentu be li pano > In the refgram I read about {roi} and quantified > tenses, but this only seems to extend to number-of-times, > (mi reroi klama == I two-times go) I don't see any > way to get specific about time intervals inside the > context of a tense. There is this example: 12.12) loi snime cu carvi ze'u le ca dunra some-of-the-mass-of snow rains [long time interval] the [present] winter. Snow falls during this winter. > Tho maybe in conversation, cu'e would work: > > ma'a cu'e vofli? > [we-all what time/space? fly] > ri mentu pano > [prior-sumti minutes-duration-is 10] But {ri} there would point to {ma'a}, not to {lo nu ma'a vofli}. > That is not a grammatical response, which should be a tense, > > ui ze'i > [not very dam' long!] > > But it does answer the question indirectly. Yes, but in that case the question is not really just about duration. {cu'e} is a very imprecise question, maybe that's why nobody ever seems to use it. mu'o mi'e xorxes