From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 16 13:07:03 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:07:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H6vWD-0000Uq-8A for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:07:01 -0800 Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.89.62]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H6vW7-0000Ua-Qh for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:06:56 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=RkWU3mHTJBXnOeKeI6slZLRdQ+cbY3ocXheleB0aS0m2odaR4vQYfSX1kUqFE+nz; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.164.92.72] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1H6vW4-0002Hm-Cj for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:06:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <38D7C3C0-0817-4F7C-BE18-64EF5CEE18DC@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cortesi Subject: [lojban-beginners] vono sementu lo zu'o pa jufra Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:07:14 -0800 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-ELNK-Trace: c82619e33d1ea3219c7f779228e2f6aeda0071232e20db4d6708affff58540476fca40083b8f7a4b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.92.72 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Score-Int: -23 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 3887 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: dcortesi@mindspring.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Jan 16, 2007, at 2:21 AM, turnip@bcpl.net wrote: > Finally, I have finished the first draft of the translation of "The > Berenstain > Bears and the Prize Pumpkin." I haven't read the original. Here are my notes on translating the first sentence. > .ini'oni'o lu loi guzmrkukurbita goi ko'a simsa loi drata > mivmu'e le ka go'o li'u se cusku la pafcribe goi pycy. ca le nu > pycy .e. le ribve'a cu sisti lo nu cicyspavi'u be fi le purdi fi ko'a .i ni'o ni'o "now for something completely different" (u'i) lu quote (x1) loi those that truly are guzmrkukurbita guzme type-of what? (must be Cucurbit, Gourd family) melon-gourd? goi ko'a hereinafter referred to as "A" simsa is/are like (x2) loi those that truly are drata different from other things... (simsa x3, or x2 of drata? assume the latter) mivmu'e jmive+munje living type of universe ...in the biosphere (simsa x3, in-property) le what we'll call ka the property of... go'o the subsequent bridi == "cusku"? (gourds can talk?!?) li'u end quote se cusku thus spoke la pafcribe Papa Bear goi pycy hereinafter referred to as "PC" (but not jypycy, u'i) . (pause) ca le nu during the event of... (x1) pycy .e. le ribve'a cu PC and the one described as bear-child sisti stopped (x2) lo nu the actual event of cicyspavi'u cilce+spati+vimcu wild-plant-removal/taking weeding be which/from/by fi le purdi (purdi x3:) the crop fi ko'a x3 of guzme+kukurbita? Summarizing the result of 40 minutes work: "Gourds are like things that are unlike living things because they can talk," said Papa Bear as he and the bear child stopped weeding the crop of gourds. Ignorance/confusions on my part: use of kukurbita (==cucurbit? many readers wouldn't recognize it) which isn't Lojban or a cmene or a quote. Special rules for botanical names??? intent of {go'o} -- which seems peculiar to be placed in dialogue. Papa Bear ought to be referring to the next bridi HE WILL UTTER, which would not be the bridi based on {cusku}, but which also might not be the "next" bridi but one much further along in the text of the narrative. {fi ko'a} when guzme has no x3 and x3 of purdi already expressed Questions of style and word choice: {...simsa loi drata...} (similar to things that are dissimilar) is the sort of contradictory phrasing that might be effective in poetry but seems labored here, and confusing. Wouldn't {cizra} work? {LA pafcribe} but {LE ribve'a}? Thanks for your efforts, Dave Cortesi