From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 18 08:12:14 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:12:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H7Zs4-0005rR-Hz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:12:13 -0800 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX18aE/Mb5U7n1iD47lbc7FruFkFFu/+xGj0=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H7Zrr-0005qk-Jq for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 08:12:10 -0800 Received: from 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:11:49 -0500 Received: from 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.22]) by 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007011811114707470 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:11:48 -0500 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:11:46 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: FW: quantified number sumti, fences, and meshes Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:11:45 -0500 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4021D41AE@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <200701181032.23523.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: FW: quantified number sumti, fences, and meshes Thread-Index: Acc7FttimAAue+D1Rty9AncPjB3BPQAAlg5w From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2007 16:11:46.0253 (UTC) FILETIME=[59F1E7D0:01C73B1B] X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Score-Int: -23 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 3907 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Pierre wrote: >On Thursday 18 January 2007 10:00, Turniansky, Michael wrote: >> But I can't figure out how to say "the 2 2's" For example, saying (and >> this may be malglico, in which case I apologize in advance) "The 3 >> sticks measured-in-meters were 2 2's, and a 3" (And yes, I know you CAN >> circumlocute this in various ways, but I was talking more directly.) >> I've tried li re boi re, but that doesn't parse. Is there a way to do >> it? > {le ci grana cu mitre re li re jo'u li ci}. jbofi'e requires {lo'o} before > {jo'u}, for the same reason as {ku joi}. But this misses my point (which may mean my sentence was a bad example). I know that "re li re" is fine, but it means "2 _of the_ 2's". I want to assert that 2 2s are all the 2s there are (equivalent to "le re verba"). Obviously, I can't say "li re re", because that would mean the 22. >> B) bitmu means fence or wall, but is there a way to unambiguously state >> which is meant? They're pretty different things. In my story, I went >> with mudbi'u in an effort to try to hint I meant a fence, but walls can >> be made out of wood, too. This also leads to my third question: > Would you consider a solid vertical flat structure that does not adjoin a > roof, but is out in a field, to be a wall or a fence? Point well taken. I guess for me (cultural dependency?) the difference in connotation is that a fence has a higher porosity than a wall (although there is such a thing as a stone fence). Fences generally let in light, water, etc. whereas walls generally don't. >> C) Is there a brivla meaning something akin to "x1 is a >> mesh/network/2-dimensional linkage connecting a set x2"? It might have >> come in handier in B than mudri > I've thought of {gredile} for grid or lattice, but I don't think that's > what you want; besides, it's not selrafsi. Gredile? A fu'ivla? That it doesn't have a rafsi doesn't bother me, and actually, yeah, it would seem to be what I want