From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Feb 26 08:58:54 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HLjBd-0003c6-Ek for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:54 -0800 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.183]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HLjBV-0003bv-6K for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:53 -0800 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a29so735933pyi for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=ao/NCMmTqMlfb/Heldv9K+pNljoEgHyLNb9H8blzQLJ17aP6pPweP6A7ps1/1MJcIhPFLn2oTDFbWELaXrdSfNW0KekunguG8ser9iVkpvRAJkS7oiYvXvx2o7CtmRUdY62YYR0ZcWxTM/jV8+ABo2eNNR6XRgRIse1SDKHABJI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=KCh5GDAkFz2Ahoc4PAFgIGboJYdTYuL8V+2gDAAWgQotPvUkoCPlpSv3HV3ZF+IOaDsp2ZwE5qLLBCh4FiinIMuzh1n9sdzM5VG0qx77C7cSagmbBPh2PBFWAYZ6Rcj9XxhXxx1K+/lIlr7CiyFhefLZ3/eIt2QVj4EfCkpuQyo= Received: by 10.35.127.7 with SMTP id e7mr8499930pyn.1172509122364; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.85.5 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:58:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <12d58c160702260858i4b435593kd13d6c76e944563c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:58:42 -0500 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) In-Reply-To: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7BD7@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1306_21681976.1172509122312" References: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7BD3@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7BD7@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: a7283946e971812d X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Score-Int: -22 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4050 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_1306_21681976.1172509122312 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline *From:* lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] *On Behalf Of *Turniansky, Michael * Sent:* Monday, February 26, 2007 9:46 AM* To:* lojban-beginners@lojban.org* Subject:* [lojban-beginners] Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) 1) I note that just as lojban disallows certain CC combinations (such as "mz") for fear they will be misheard, TLI Loglan disallows certain triples (like "ndj" which might be confused as "nj") Does lojban have any such forbidden triples? I see none such in the CRG, but don't know if the BPFK has done anything on this. 2) An utterance of the form "le broda cu le brode fe le brodi" or even "le broda cu fe le brode fe le brodi" is grammatically acceptable, but does it have any meaning? As I see it, there are three possibilities: One) it is non-meaningful, and clearly and error; two) It implies some type of logical or non-logical connection between the argument, equivalent to "le broda cu fe brode JE/JOI brodi" (and probably specifically je or joi); or three) brodi replaces brode entirely. Has this been discussed/resolved? Thanks in advance, --gejsypa On 2/26/07, Turniansky, Michael wrote: > > 1) there are four explicitly disallowed triples -- ndj'', ``ndz'', > ``ntc'', and ``nts" (CLL, chapter 3, just above last paragraph of section 7) > > 2) It is my second guess. It operates like ".e" , simultaneously > making the claim about both items in that slot (CLL chapter 9, example 3.9 > ) > > --gejyspa, sevzi tavla > It should be pointed out that the examples in your second question are ungrammatical for reasons unrelated to the substance of your question. I think what you mean are {broda [fe] le brode fe le brodi} and {broda [fe] le brode je/joi brodi}. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_1306_21681976.1172509122312 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Turniansky, Michael
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:46 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics)

1) I note that just as lojban disallows certain CC combinations (such as "mz") for fear they will be misheard, TLI Loglan disallows certain triples (like "ndj" which might be confused as "nj")  Does lojban have any such forbidden triples?  I see none such in the CRG, but don't know if the BPFK has done anything on this.

 2) An utterance of the form "le broda cu le brode fe le brodi" or even "le broda cu fe le brode fe le brodi" is grammatically acceptable, but does it have any meaning?  As I see it, there are three possibilities:  One) it is non-meaningful, and clearly and error; two) It implies some type of logical or non-logical connection  between the argument, equivalent to  "le broda cu fe brode JE/JOI brodi" (and probably specifically je or joi);  or three) brodi replaces brode entirely.  Has this been discussed/resolved?

                    Thanks in advance,

                          --gejsypa


On 2/26/07, Turniansky, Michael <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com> wrote:

1)       there are four explicitly disallowed triples -- ndj'', ``ndz'', ``ntc'', and ``nts" (CLL, chapter 3, just above last paragraph of section 7)

2)       It is my second guess.  It operates like ".e" , simultaneously making the claim about both items in that slot (CLL chapter 9, example 3.9)

                        --gejyspa, sevzi tavla


It should be pointed out that the examples in your second question are ungrammatical for reasons unrelated to the substance of your question. I think what you mean are
{broda [fe] le brode fe le brodi}
and
{broda [fe] le brode je/joi brodi}.
mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan


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