From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 02 04:08:56 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:08:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HN6ZE-0006Sc-3x for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:08:56 -0800 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HN6Z8-0006SJ-UH for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 04:08:55 -0800 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:08:42 -0500 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007030207084103453 for ; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:08:41 -0500 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:08:42 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Nouns and verbs (was: learning lojban) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 07:08:42 -0500 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7BFA@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <200703012051.50926.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Nouns and verbs (was: learning lojban) Thread-Index: Acdcbw/QFLwVFFe6Tj2FUt2h5aTDcQAUv1DQ From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2007 12:08:42.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[850ABCC0:01C75CC3] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4076 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners I'm not sure why you assert a brivla is a verb. You assert we can say "le mlatu cu blabi" or '"e blabi cu mlatu" because "they are both ... verbs" Please show me another language where verbs can do what you describe (be exchanged). They can do that because they are predicate relationships, not verbs. Verbs are action or state-of-being words. "le mlatu" is the subject of the sentence, therefore mlatu is functioning as a noun, not a verb, in that sentence. And while it is true that you cannot say lai galtu cu .alp. You CAN say "lai galtu cu me la .alp" But I will grant you that you are right, cmene are proper nouns, although not commons nouns (which are brivla, when used as such). --gejyspa -----Original Message----- From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Pierre Abbat Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:52 PM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Nouns and verbs (was: learning lojban) On Thursday 01 March 2007 16:33, Karl Naylor wrote: > On 01/03/07, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > There are nouns and verbs in Lojban, and also conjunctions, prepositions, > > Could you give examples of nouns and verbs? I'm not sure what you're > referring to. A brivla is a verb (whether its translation in any other language is a verb) and a cmene is a noun. We can say {le mlatu cu blabi} or equally well {le blabi cu mlatu}, because they're both verbs (i.e. brivla). In English "the cat is white", "cat" is a noun and "white" is an adjective, so you can't exchange them and say "the white is cat". In {lai .alp. cu galtu}, {alp} and {galtu} are different parts of speech; you can't exchange them and say {lai galtu cu .alp}. phma