From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 02 15:53:53 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HNHZQ-0002MZ-BY for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:53:52 -0800 Received: from ms-smtp-01.texas.rr.com ([24.93.47.40]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HNHZK-0002MA-A4 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:53:51 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.103] (cpe-67-9-166-49.austin.res.rr.com [67.9.166.49]) by ms-smtp-01.texas.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l22NrT8U008102 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 17:53:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45E8B8F9.2060201@hypermetrics.com> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:53:29 -0600 From: Hal Fulton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0RC1 (X11/20041209) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban-beginners Digest V6 #30 References: <200703021541.KAA10214@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <27AD232D-3038-4E47-82F8-8BA0DD66CB5F@umich.edu> <20070302185850.25D107E47@bender.tigertech.net> In-Reply-To: <20070302185850.25D107E47@bender.tigertech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Score: -2.4 X-Spam-Score-Int: -23 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4092 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: hal9000@hypermetrics.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Carl Lumma wrote: >>What I was trying to say (and apparently didn't express well) >>was that, in an audio CD course, it would be easier to learn the Lojban >>terminology a little at a time after teaching some phrases and >>vocabulary. > > > What I was trying to say is that I'd rather not learn the > grammar at all -- I'd just like to learn to speak it. That's > the real test of a language anyway. All of you who are interested > in testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis can't hope to get any data > before people are speaking it fluently. I'm sympathetic to this, but I think a conlang is different from a natural lang in a practical sense. Lojban is no one's "native" language, and no one learns it as a first language in infancy. (So far...) It might be possible to learn a language as an adult using "pre- linguistic" techniques, but I've never heard of it being done in a pure sense. Hal